Byte-Sized Virtue S09E01 – The Easy Way Out
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Podcast Topic
Rather than examine any one of the Eight Virtues of Ultima in particular this Advent season, WtF Dragon instead wants to examine something that encompasses all of them and also relates to something he is undergoing in his own life at present: forgiveness and repentance. Yes, this is the same line of inquiry that was attempted around this time last year. Hopefully, this time around, there will be some actual exploration of the topic, rather than just a pair of hastily-produced episodes.
Full show notes at spamspamspamhumbug.com.
I just want to leave a note saying I listened to this and will follow to see where it goes.
Well, thanks! Hopefully I can keep this one going throughout December and into January; my last few attempts at BSV seasons have not been particularly fruitful.
I believe the JMS B5 Episode you are talking about is in Season 3, Passing Through Gethsemane. I remember it well as Brad Dourif plays the character. He is a great actor especially when it comes to the topic of self-immolation. See Voyager’s “Meld” as another excellent acting piece from him. Great episodes.
As for Star Wars and Ren. This is a hard topic and I understand and agree with your point about redemption followed by immediate death in current storytelling tropes. In my opinion there has to be a point where someone is not redeemable, talking secular here, because if everyone is redeemable for all actions to society then where is the onus for one’s moral structure during their time amongst it? Ren is irredeemable. How many billions of lives is he responsible for ending? Yet he clearly has a redemption arc and he is almost certainly going to turn into “Ben” and get redeemed dying soon after. I would understand a non-secular explanation for redemption here to some extent, even though Star Wars canon has no vehicle for such, but certainly never a secular explanation inside or outside of canon. The cause of this is either horrible storytelling, horrible moral structure of those involved in the storytelling, or both.
Ah, yes!
That would be the one, for sure. Good memory.
Modern secular culture has a big problem with forgiveness. Or, rather, a very selective problem with forgiveness. There’s a general willingness, on both the Left and the Right, to…not turn a blind eye to the transgressions of their ideological fellow-travelers, but certainly to pare back the consequences demanded against “one of their own” versus those demanded against “one of the other side”. We see this in e.g. “Cancel Culture” online.
There’s very little — perhaps none at all — willingness to forgive outright, without demanding that someone pay for their transgressions with public shaming, or with their job.
It’s not that the second sentence is incorrect; no doubt Ren is in fact responsible for many atrocities, including some we’ve seen depicted on screen.
But does that render him incapable of change…of realizing the depths of his monstrosity and repudiating it?
This gets at the nature of redemption, I suppose. What does it mean to be redeemed? What does it mean to be forgiven? Does redemption necessarily mean a total escape from the just and due consequences that attend one’s actions?
Well, Star Wars does have a partial vehicle for supernatural action; the Force is not merely a passive element; it’s a living thing unto itself, with a will and agency.
But even absent that, again, what is the nature of redemption…what does it mean to be redeemed? Is Kylo incapable of becoming Ben again? If not, then should he become Ben again, do we — and will he — expect that he will simply have his monstrous history as Ren dismissed summarily? This may happen; such can be the nature of mercy. But redemption can still mean facing the due consequences of one’s deeds, even if one has experienced profound internal and dispositional change.
Redemption most certainly does not mean getting a pass for past misdeeds, whether we look at it secularly or religiously. People that plead guilty may receive some mercy from the courts, but still must serve whatever punishment it handed down.
Consider Jeffrey Dahmer. At some point in prison he found faith, repented, and became a Christian. When asked if he was going to seek parole, his response was something along the lines of, “no. I did horrible things, I belong in here to pay for it.”
Another real world example would be Nazi scientists nabbed under Operation Paperclip. Many were ideological nazis, and some had served under duress. But all those brought to the US worked towards building the modern era via their work at NASA. Some, like Von Braun, saw their work as a way to make up for their efforts evil use by the nazis. The debat still rag she today if they earned any measure of forgiveness.
A good redemption arc in fiction should contain that element. Most just opt for the simpler narrative of self sacrifice over the more in depth facing of justice after the fact.