For Your Amusement, Part the First
So over at NeoGAF, they evidently ran some sort of vote to decide the site’s Essential RPGs for 2015. They’ve posted the top 30 so far (out of 50 in total), and…well, here’s the list:
- Chrono Trigger
- Persona 4
- Dark Souls
- Final Fantasy VI
- Xenoblade Chronicles
- Final Fantasy VII
- Persona 3
- Mass Effect
- Fire Emblem Awakening
- Planescape: Torment
- Final Fantasy IX
- Fallout: New Vegas
- Baldur’s Gate 2
- Final Fantasy XII
- Demon’s Souls
- Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
- Earthbound
- Mass Effect 2
- Final Fantasy Tactics
- The Witcher 2: Assassin of Kings
- Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
- Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines
- Divinity: Original Sin
- Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal
- Final Fantasy X
- Valkyria Chronicles
- Suikoden 2
- Fallout 3
- Skyrim
- The World Ends With You
It’s a rare day that I unequivocally agree with anything at the RPG Codex, but their response to the list is well worth the read.
Because really, how do you put together a list of supposedly essential RPGs, and somehow fail to have a single Ultima title in the top 30? I’m honestly surprised Planescape: Torment ranked where it did; has anyone who voted for this list even played it?
Valkyria Chronicles is a turnbased strategy game. The leveling system is super shallow and you can basically ignore it for the entire game. It’s like saying Call of Duty is an RPG because you can unlock new guns. It’s actually on that level.
The comments at RPGCodex are interesting but somewhat 4chan-ish. I had to resort to the Urban Dictionary to discover what “newfag” meant. But yeah, that’s one bizarre and horrible list of top RPGs. Chrono Trigger is a good game, but holy shit, the best RPG ever? Really??? Guess that’s what happens when you give the unwashed masses a vote and they exercise it…madness and stupidity.
The RPG Codex is kind of like that, yeah. One of those “hives of scum and villainy” that Obi Wan warned Luke about, at times…though at other times, invaluable.
Heh. Yeah, it was strange. At times the posts seemed incredibly well-informed and insightful, at others it was like some socially-retarded 12 year old so soaked in niche-clique jargon I thought they were speaking a foreign language. What was really crazy is when a single post was simultaneously both. That made me think of some creepy old dude in a basement trying to be down with the cool kids. So, yeah… The Obi Wan reference seems appropriate. I wonder what they’d think of Sanctimonia… They’d probably have some adjective that ends with “fag” to describe me. 🙂 In any case I’ll be taking a deeper look at the site…the comments were certainly more interesting and relevant to my interests than the average Slashdot or Gamasutra thread.
That’s the danger and joy of the RPG Codex…if you can sift past the juvenile chaff and occasional blatant Chris Avellone fanboyism, that is.
This is off-subject, but fuck it since this is “for my amusement”, but do you get any kind of useful funding from Patreon? That’s fine if you consider it a topic not fit for public discourse, of course. The reason I ask is because I just realized (per your previous article) what Patreon actually is. I was thinking about giving it a go, but 1) I feel like an epic asshole even thinking about asking people for money (no reflection on you; that’s my idiosyncrasy) and 2) my most hated enemy is failure. With regard to the second, I suspect no one would give me anything and I’d just be making a fool out of myself while simultaneously failing (a hard pill to swallow). So since you use the site, any thoughts you may have could prove useful and would be appreciated.
Patreon seems to works best for those that have a charismatic personality and provide people entertainment or offer some form of learning or tutorial experience. At least those are the people that appear to do well on it. It really seems like it works best for people that have had ongoing vlogs, etc..
As far as using it for funding things like indie game development or other creative avenues, it’s probably not the best fit, although you may be able to pull a bit of scratch from loyal friends and family. I think it can be a useful platform for tutorials of some types, but they would really have to be interesting and provide more value then what people can already find on youtube.
You are basically selling your personality on Patreon, so if you don’t have a Charisma of 16 or greater it will be tough.
I bet most of the big money makers on Patreon were the drama geeks in high school. Bottom line is people like to either be entertained or taught something valuable to them.
Mmmm. My charisma is more like a vinaigrette with a little less sugar and a little more vinegar. I’m a bit short on comeliness as well, so I’m not sure where that leaves me. Based on the short video on how to have a successful campaign shown when you sign up your observations about charisma ring true. That dude must have been high on something special to exude that level of cheerfulness. I venture there may even have been a woman of low virtue under his desk polishing his iPhone as the camera rolled.
I think what I need is to release. I just don’t have it in me to sell myself in front of a camera, win people with charisma and expertly-marketed fundraising campaigns and all that. I just need to quit fucking around endlessly polishing Sylph’s engine, do the damn stages, optimize it and release it with as much fanfare as I can muster.
Thanks for the info. You may have saved me some humiliation and disappointment. 🙂
Since Patreon makes public the funding each project is receiving, there’d be little point in me hiding the data in this comment, no?
As it stands, the Codex will be pulling in about $75 USD/month (less whatever fees PayPal deducts) off of Patreon, which will…offset roughly 75% of the monthly hosting costs for the Codex. (Actually, a bit less than that, but I’m not counting things like my VaultPress subscription for the purposes of the Patreon campaign.)
So that’s not bad. If it goes higher, I can look at upgrading the server…and if not, well, I can at least maintain the current service indefinitely.
As to what you’d be able to get for Sylph or Sanctimonia…hell, I really don’t know. You had floated the idea of monetizing extra lives in Sanctimonia, and it’s there that Patreon might come in handy; for $1/month, players get some topped up to some set number of lives per month. For larger donations, more lives and/or other stuff. It could become a de facto subscription, without the trouble of having to maintain and secure a subscription portal and customer payment data.
The other nice thing about Patreon is that the rewards don’t have to be showstoppers (like on Kickstarter).
Equally, though, I’m just spitballing here; I’m too new to the site to offer meaningful insights as yet.
That’s a pretty good pull I think, considering the site is all about Ultima. As big as Ultima is to us, the average Joe on the street probably has no idea what it is.
That’s an interesting idea you have about using Patreon for game monetization. I’d have to either manually manage the user accounts on Sanctimonia’s server or have it parse email notifications from Patreon to automatically update the user accounts. I was already thinking about doing that using PayPal so people could buy a life through my web site and the server would automatically know about it. I know they have APIs for that, but I don’t think they’d play nice with GAMBAS.
Anyway, thanks for the info…good stuff.
“As big as Ultima is to us, the average Joe on the street probably has no idea what it is.”
And that’s why I try. 🙂
Are there any Dragons with smithing skills? We could start making Ultima branding irons, forehead-size. Might even make the news on CNN and Fox. 🙂
They must be big on JRPGs over there at RPG Codex
I’ll admit, I’ve always been a fan of Final Fantasy IV (in fact, I’ve been playing the rereleased version on Steam quite a bit lately) but Ultima IV and VII at the very least should be on that list, probably others as well.
@sanctimonia Some advice from one game design to another…. Polish a small demo of Sylph and then put it up on one of the indie game sights to download for free. I’ve been pretty impressed with https://itch.io/ so check out that place if you haven’t already. You don’t need to have all the game systems and functionality in, it can be a small subset, but you need to have the core look and feel in the demo. The player needs to understand what he will be getting if he want to buy the full version.
Then you will have to focus on Twitter and other SM to spread the news about the demo around and build up followers of the game that may be interested in it. This could take some time. Basically don’t expect to find a lot of RPG people around here that would be into a shooter like this, so you will have to fish in other ponds. Depending on the feedback you get from the demo you can decide what to do next. Release a larger ‘chapter’ of the game with more levels, etc…
I have seen your Sylph videos and can offer you some free advice on your design if you want. I always enjoy meeting and helping out other game developers and people that are doing things they are passionate about, at least the ones that aren’t A-holes. 🙂 I’m a veteran game developer and it has always been about improving the craft to me. You can send me a PM via Twitter if interested in talking more about these things since this is probably not the best forum for it. 🙂
Thanks for the good advice. I’ve been doing a lot of that to reasonable effect, releasing playable alpha demos on my web site and at IndieDB. I post regular dev updates to my Twitter feed, often with screenshots or gameplay videos.
I was equally struck by the seemingly opposing genres Sanctimonia and Sylph belong to and thought others may think it ironic. I was surprised when Browncoat Jayson continued retweeting me and Withstand the Fury wrote articles after each alpha release. I think a fan of Ultima who also codes engines and systems can’t help but let Ultima mechanics and values influence their design decisions. That, and that the article is for our amusement, makes this an appropriate forum for any ideas about Sylph or Sanctimonia.
That raises an interesting question, though. How many Ultima fans also enjoy games like 1943, Gradius, or Wing Commander? Garriott’s main goal was to go to space, after all.
For private conversation I’d recommend email rather than Twitter. I’m at /com/eightvirtues/kevinfishburne/.
Otherwise here is a good place, as it is forgiving and spawns interesting and sometimes useful conversations.
OK I will share some thoughts here then. Keep in mind that my goal will always be to help you out, and not discourage you. I wouldn’t want to waste your time or mine. That said here is a current laundry list of things you have brought up and my advice on those. Take them as you may, they are just opinions, but I give them with hope that they may be useful to you in some fashion.
1. The friends and community here are great for spreading the word about your endeavors, but may not be so great at getting honest opinions from. You need to go outside of friends and family to get real opinions of your games. Friends are the last people you usually want play-testing your game as well. They are too emotionally invested to tell you like it is. Find qualified people that will tell you the truth.
2. Sanctimonia was too huge a scope for one guy. I’m sure you know that now, and learned lots of new skills from that experience which are yours forever. If anything, you could apply those skills to a much much smaller (non-networked) subset of the game. I mean small. Like an island with 1 dungeon and 1 town and just focus only on core game mechanics. Do not try to make a full RPG or an MMO.
3. Understand your genre and target audience for your games. Most gamers fall into categories. Some like FPS, others platformers, others shooters, others RPGs, etc… It’s very rare that you find gamers that play them or like them all. Turn-based gamers usually don’t like action based games so you will probably not find a lot of turn-based Ultima fans that also liked playing the shooters or action based games you mentioned above. We all know how turn-based Ultima fans felt with the action elements in Ultima 8.
4. As you said, your love of Ultima will influence your designs, but this does not mean your designs will reach Ultima gamers across genres. Gamers liked Wing Commander because they wanted a Star Wars type space sim, not because Origin made it. It was the best game of it’s genre out at the time. None of my Ultima friends touched that game however. They are in separate camps, with minimal crossover. Each genre type has features that make it what it is, focus on those and don’t try to mix genres.
Now on to Sylph… let me first qualify these things by saying shooters are not my cup of tea, so I could totally not understanding the type of gamer that would play this game. However, I believe that many game design principles translate across genres. Most of these opinions are really just first impression types and may not matter since your game is in pre-alpha.
5. First, I really think you should consider another name for the game. I know Sylph has a cool meaning, but the name sounds too weak. Remember the name is the first introduction to the game, so it needs to at least sound interesting to draw people in. Galaxian…Sinistar…Defender…Space Invaders…Missile Command…Sylph(??).
6. The music for Sylph seems too soft and relaxing for an adrenaline basic shooter. Seems like faster pumping techno or rock (even better) seems like it would be a better fit. Playing the slower music during the pause/weapons upgrade screen may be a nice touch and provides some pacing, but go back to the faster music during gameplay.
7. The talking male voice you use for power ups and such sounds like a bad version of the Guardian. If it’s supposed to be a talking computer, why not use a sexy female computer voice instead?
8. I think your main interface and icons need work. I don’t know if they are just placeholder art right now, but you should think about updating them. Instead of pre-rendering the elements, try a more pixel art style interface. Throwing a few bucks at a pixel artist can really make a difference on something like this. The interface needs to look more interesting and colorful. Looks too dark now. Even the upgrade close up of your ship is darker then the perspective view. Play with the lighting.
9. Most of the fx are going in the right direction, but the ship shield fx needs to be something more interesting than the static ellipsoid bubble you pop up. Try playing around with a better shield fx. At least animate the UVs or pulse the color so it’s not so static. It would also look better if the shield was a sphere instead of an ellipsoid so it doesn’t look like it rotates along with your ship. Another option could be having an extruded low ploy transparent ‘skin’ surround the ship as your shield with a cool fx on it.
10. The last thing I can think of is the camera perspective. It seems a bit off. Maybe it’s because the horizon is too far towards the top of the screen. I feel that bringing the horizon down may be better. I want this game to have a perspective like Space Harrier. It’s hard to be sure about these things without seeing them obviously, but with the current camera it seems like it would be very hard to read the ships altitude in relation to obstacles. Maybe everything is designed to be on the same plane, in which case I guess this doesn’t matter.
That’s all I can think of for now. I hope some of this helps out or at least spawns some good game design conversations! I’m curious what others think about these things as well?
@Stirring Dragon
Thanks for that detailed and thoughtful post. You have no idea how much I appreciate that, as I don’t get a lot of feedback on Sanctimonia or Sylph.
Agreed on point 1, though I’m not sure how to elicit feedback from people. Right now I’m not reaching a large audience, and relatively speaking probably never will even after release due to OS exclusivity unless I get featured prominently on a Linux gaming site or can launch on Steam or other digital distribution services supporting Linux.
On point 2 (Sanctimonia), while I agree I bit off more than I expected to chew, with enough time I think can get it down. The most complex and difficult systems have already been implemented, requiring only refinement, optimization and minor bug fixes. Once I go back to work on it full time I expect perhaps another year for it to be complete enough to become viable as a playable game. If it were any other MMO (as in content-driven) I’d be dead in the water. The only thing that’s saved me is the procedural world generation and that the gameplay results from creative use of systems rather than pre-defined missions/quests/etc. Right now everything works that’s supposed to and it’s at a tipping point where things will rapidly begin coming together as a game rather than an engine, so I’m actually looking forward to getting back to work on it.
Agreed on point 3, although I know there are gamers who play games from multiple genres; I just don’t know what the percentage is.
Agreed on point 4, although the influence of Ultima on something like Sylph isn’t obvious. There are no RPG mechanics other than weapon upgrades and “health”. It’s more a matter of extreme attention to detail, giving the player little things they may not notice immediately but would be amazed by and appreciate upon later discovery. As far as Sanctimonia goes, it’s more or less a real-time version of what Ultima Online was conceived to be, rather than what it actually was. It’s based more on the idea and spirit of UO than the game itself.
On point 5 (renaming Sylph), I agree with the logic here but think this is a special case. Sylph is a “spiritual successor” or “love letter” to the 1986 game Silpheed by Game Arts. The title “Silpheed” (a Japanese game) is derived from the word “sylphid”, defined as “a mythological spirit of the air”. An alternative spelling is “sylph”. I keep waiting for a letter from Game Arts telling me to cease and desist, but I hope the difference in spelling is enough to prevent it or that we could perhaps work out a deal if it comes to that. So in this case the title has an appropriate meaning and connection to the name of the game it is based upon.
On point 6 I agree, although I’m limited in my capacity to influence this. I’m working pretty closely with the composer and musician Mordi on the soundtrack for a significant cut of any revenue Sylph may make. The tracks as they stand will be rearranged in order to delivery their payload more concisely and effectively before final release and should for the time being largely be considered works in progress. The actual music from Silpheed was a mix between rock and funk with some serene melodic bits interspersed, which is the target goal for Sylph’s soundtrack. I’ll pass this along to Mordi for his consideration.
On point 7, yes, that’s my voice with the pitch lowered and some reverb. The good news is that it’s a debug sound effect that will be disabled in the final release. I basically did it for my own amusement. I am however considering adding some com chatter with CIC which will degrade in quality as the player gets further from Earth. If I do that I plan to have my brother (or his wife) do the voice acting, as they’re both actors out in Hollywood doing their thing.
On point 8, the HUD/OSD is based directly on that of Silpheed’s:
http://www.silpheed.org/SilpheedPC8801/Screenshots/pc-dos-screen10.gif
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/silpheed/original/24.png
The weapon icons do look like shit, so I plan on changing those. I also need to add missiles so the player knows how many they have. The frame around the main OSD is a 3D model with separate lighting from the rest of the scene (rendered orthogonally), so I can play with that pretty easily. The weapon selection screen will eventually show the SA-08 inside the spacecraft carrier’s hangar (each stage ends by docking with a carrier), so its barebones look will disappear at some point.
On point 9, yeah, the shields are something I’ve been screwing with since near the beginning and I’m still not happy with them. The latest is that they’re rendered twice, once with the static “plasma cloud” texture and a second time with the “static/noise” texture used for force fields on base stages. I also rotate them so they twitch around a bit when being hit. Technically a non-spherical shield would rotate with the ship since it was being generated by it, but I like your idea about making the shielding a duplicate of the ship model with a different texture. Making it “grow” would be tricky as I’d have to join the separate ship sections in Blender to fatten it and save that as a separate model, but I could render the same ship part models a second time with a shield texture…that has potential for awesomeness if I can get OpenGL to behave.
On point 10, the camera perspective attempts to emulate that of Silpheed, whose camera perspective was (and is) rather unique among shoot ’em ups. It’s as if you averaged the “tilt” of a vertical shooter with After Burner or Galaxy Force such that enemies still appear from near the top of the screen but it’s neither 1st-person nor top-down. Each stage actually has a slightly different perspective based on its type (land, space, asteroid base). There are also two camera modes, one is loose and the other locked to your ship, similar to games like Gran Turismo. Here’s what it looks like in Silpheed:
http://youtu.be/6D9s_5EUGYk?t=3m59s
The perspective in Sylph is actually more 1st-person than Silpheed, so a change making it more top-down could potentially have a positive effect. The problem with that is applying it to the first stage (the only one with a horizon since it’s on the surface of Earth), would hide the horizon. Since the camera can be set per-stage, I could change stages without a surface (space stages) to be more top-down and the Earth and asteroid base stages to be more like Space Harrier. One issue I’ve discovered in playing with the camera is that it’s harder to judge distance and fire/maneuver accurately when the camera leans toward 1st-person and in “loose” mode. Having the camera lock tightly to the ship would reduce the issue.
To your point however I have been considering implementing a third camera mode that is straight up 1st person though I’m debating if it should be behind your ship (After Burner/Galaxy Force) or in the cockpit. Maybe a fourth camera mode so we can have both? 🙂
As far as how “3D” or planar the gameplay is, it’s fully 3D with the left analog controlling lateral movement and the right analog controlling diving and pulling up. Your cannon shots’ trajectory are also affected by your orientation on the X axis (pointing up/down), so you can aim shots at higher or lower targets. Despite this, there are rules in place that subtly “compress” the vertical axis to prevent it from becoming a full flight sim and “encourage” 2D, planar gameplay. So it’s a bit of a hybrid. The novice can play it as a fairly 2D game while the expert can take advantage of the third axis of movement and orientation as they see fit (subtly limited as it may be).
Some specific examples of how the 3D environment is compressed include slowly pushing your ship toward a median elevation between a “floor” and “ceiling” elevation relative to the landscape’s elevation (only on the Earth surface and asteroid base stages) and compressing the two vertical coordinates in 3D distance calculations used for collision detection so over/under shots are more forgiving. Games like After Burner employed techniques like this fairly effectively, giving you the sense of full 3D without the negative gameplay consequences of getting lost in it. There are still some things (particularly on space stages where the player ship elevation is not limited) that need to be ironed out to make gameplay more challenging. I need to find a good “leading” algorithm for bullet velocity, for example, so shots at a player with a static velocity will hit them.
Anyway, it’s awesome to talk to someone who knows what’s up with how to make a game. Game dev’s a rabbit’s hole of madness, but there’s nothing quite like it, and when it works it’s immensely satisfying. If you want to keep it going here, via email, on the phone, Google Hangout, or whatever I’m down. Your feedback is certainly invaluable, so big thanks.
Sure anytime! I’m glad I can be of service. It’s always nice to talk with someone that enjoys game development enough that they can discuss issues like these without taking things too personally.
It’s nearly impossible to find people (especially friends) that can offer you decent suggestions on how to improve your design. At best you may be able to get them to tell you if they LIKE or DISLIKE something, but they probably won’t be able to give you any advice on how to make it better because they aren’t usually not designers themselves. And even if they were, you may still have a hard time pulling advice from them.
I always approach game design the same way. Pick a THEME and add challenging and FUN mechanics around that theme. That’s all there is really too it, but as you know the mechanics are always the harder part. Themes are a dime a dozen. I also don’t believe that there is game on this planet that couldn’t be turned into something much greater if designers would only apply a few principles.
Thanks for letting me know about Silpheed. It looks like it has a sort of a cult following. Have you seen this vid? Someone supposedly did an updated Android version of it somewhere as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBzx5-qiDGE
It all makes sense now why you made some of the design choices that you did (interface, camera, music, etc…). That said, I believe it is important for your growth as a game designer to always strive to make your game your “own”, instead of aiming for just another fan tribute piece. You can of course use similar gameplay mechanics and style (no need to reinvent the wheel), but it’s important to bring something new to it that players will understand sets it apart or adds increased fun/value to the genre. Most themes (and game mechanics) have already been done a thousand times before. As a game designer, it’s more about how you can combine or take away from them that will make your game shine.
Gamers accept similar themes (and even the same game cliches over and over) if you can offer them something a bit different that adds more fun to the genre. Most gamers are not so forgiving if it’s just another “skin” over the same genre. The entire mobile games realm is full of “skinned” games. Everyone knows about Flappy Bird but not so much about the 100’s of copies in it’s genre. The strength of the indie game designer is that he has the ability to bring more creativity to a project then a company with a committee of designers. However, if he doesn’t capitalize on this creativity he will never be able to stand out against other games that have higher production value.
Lets definitively keep up these conversations and see where they may lead. I actually prefer the phone for these types of discussions because its obviously way more efficient.
I’ll pop off an email to you with my contact info and we can continue to discuss how to turn this game of yours into a runaway hit! 😉 I can also give you more 3D special fx advice since I spent most of my career in the games industry doing just that.
It will be nice to talk with not only another game developer but also an Ultima fan! 🙂
As far as taking commentary personally, it always stings a little when a comment is negative, even if constructive (human nature, I suppose), but it’s easy enough for me to quickly crush and begin parsing the feedback for potentially useful information. I’m more of a slow burn than nitroglycerin.
My brother surprisingly actually did have some useful feedback, that the button mapping screen should show which button was assigned to which command. I need to make a note to do that… Apparently it had been so long since he’s played old-school games that he didn’t realize the blue and red bars in the OSD were shield and armor levels until I told him. It’s really funny watching someone play your game for the first time without any instruction. I realized that all my playtesting had made me really good at it, as he died multiple times on the first stage.
Agreed about theme vs. mechanics. It’s like ideas vs. implementation/execution. Ideas are worthless without someone to send to the slaughterhouse called Making Shit Happen. Fortunately for me the mechanics and systems are the fun part, not so much asset creation and stage design, so I get all giddy putting the nuts and bolts together. In Sylph probably the biggest innovation over Silpheed is ejecting and vented crew members that you can gib with a squirt of blood and flying limbs. That and guided missiles, which were absent.
When I began working on Sylph I was only aware of the original and the Sega CD versions, but after some research noticed there had been several spin-offs. Interestingly the Sega CD version and its PS2 remake (Silpheed The Lost Planet) are the only ones anything like the original. Here’s the PS2 version:
http://youtu.be/-Rb8A9ITyMs
I think those two (particularly the Sega CD version) go a bit overboard with the “on rails” camera perspective changes to the point of distraction. The original was a much more conservative and I think a greater test of pure skill.
I suppose my main goal with Sylph, other than to take a break from Sanctimonia and finally get my first release out, is to pay tribute to Takeshi Miyaji and demonstrate that there is a different way to do shmups. Everything today is a bullet hell shooter (despise them), a Gradius clone (cool but tired) or a three-axis shooter (WC-lite). The original Silpheed was a no frills, no bullshit test of skill with just enough tech (and great music) to lure you in to the pain cave.
Regarding clones and “skinned” games, that’s the sort of shit that may bring down the industry. Until better curation methods are implemented the flood of mediocre and cloned games is going to turn people’s stomachs at some point. It’s exactly that atmosphere that caused the first crash and we’re already seeing people in the industry with zero job security, low salaries and hordes of starving indies throwing any and everything at the wall hoping something will stick. At some point the only people left in the industry will be EA slave labor types grinding out the next CoD and true believers who suffer in silence simply because they love creating games.
I get a lot of spam, so to be safe contact me at:
com/eightvirtues/sylph
Also if you run Linux or can set up a dual-boot I can give you the latest build to play around with. You can also look through the source if you like to see the internals. It’s pretty well organized, formatted and clearly commented (I’m OCD about that), so you should be able to see how it works pretty easily.
Heh heh I sent you a reply earlier but just realized I typed ‘eighvirtues’ instead of eightvirutes. 🙂 I will also resend it to this email just in case. Looking forward to getting in touch!
Got it on both accounts. If a Dragon can’t spell “eight” then who can? Thou hast lost an eighh… LOL Funny thing is, whenever I give out my email over the phone to some company (Comcast, a bank, etc.), not only do they have a brain seizure on the word “eight” but “virtues” as well. It’s crazy.