Nightly Open Thread

Blizzard…a twenty-year legacy of awesome, or a two-decade legacy of fancy window dressing on unoriginal ideas?

12 Responses

  1. Bedwyr says:

    Yes to all the above. Polish counts for something. Innovation counts for something. Storytelling counts for something. And yet you can’t have it all. It’s like that engineering aphorism: Fast, good, cheap. Pick any two. Blizzard put their money down on quality and polish and made beucoup bucks with it.

  2. Sergorn says:

    Blizzard do good games. I don’t think it goes any further than that though and I’d certainly rank them amongst the most overrated game developpers ever (they’re still behind Valve in term of overattedness though :P). All they’ve ever done is ripping other peoples’ concept (Blackthorn was a Flashback clone, Warcraft was just Dune 2 into a fantasy world, Diablo was basically Rogue with a U8-ish engine, WoW is just another Everquest-like…).

    Even the whole “they’ve released polished and perfect games” bit tends to get overrated – Diablo II was dated before it even came out. And eck as good as Starcraft II maybe, ten years to basically get a more nice looking version of the first game feels like meh. And of course there games aren’t bug free either.

    Personally I’ve been dellusioned with Blizzard ever since they canned Bill Roper’s original Warcraft 3 concept (which was basically a Role Playing Strategy approach that sounded original and innovative for the genre) and Warcraft Adventures.

    Ever since then all they do is playing it safe, which is allright I guess but certainly doesn’t deserve the kind of praise they get.

  3. Sslaxx says:

    The “playing it safe” strategy seems to be the overarching plan of Activision-Blizzard as a whole. Except there are signs of it not working as they would like (Guitar Hero).

  4. Sergorn says:

    The “playing it safe” strategy seems to be the strategy of most players in the market to be blunt, even the best ones.

    Publishers and even developpers don’t want to take too may risks and prefer cathering to the fanbase. It’s safe, and usually safe.

    I say meh.

    I am personally fond of the “It ain’t broke but let’s fix it anyway” approach that Garriott, Spector and Origin as a whole kept using throuhough their entire career. Hell had Origin played it safe we would still be doing Ultima games that play like Ultima I 😛

    Sure this approach is risky and can lead to alienating the fanbase like Ultima VIII or Deus Ex 2… but I prefere to see companies taking risk even if they fail, than just doing the same thing over and over again.

    Ironically I feel EA are amongst those who dare the most to take risks lately. I’m not sure what that says about the industry though.

  5. Infinitron says:

    The “playing it safe” strategy seems to be the overarching plan of Activision-Blizzard as a whole.

    …except that the classic Activision strategy is releasing crap sequels every year, while Blizzard gets to work on each of their games for several years. Big difference.

  6. Handshakes says:

    Option B, yes.

    What I will give them is knowing exactly *when* to take someone else’s game design and polish it and user-friendly-ify it. Dune 2… Not all that fun. But they saw the potential, and Warcraft came along and blew our minds.

    Diablo brought the roguelike to the masses, and it also went a long way towards bringing multiplayer into the gaming mainstream. And so on and so on…

    To a point, I say good on them. I just hate how the majority of the rest of the game industry has decided that the only way to make any money is to make clones of Blizz’s already way too derivative games.

    Every genre Blizzard touches (and then makes a bazillion clams off of) turns to crap. Now nearly every RTS is based off of that incredibly flawed Warcraft design, which yields build orders and brainless micromanagement. Almost all RPGs have become all about killing monsters for their shiny pants (ala Diablo), and do I even need to point out how nearly every MMORPG in the past 5 years has been a total WoW clone (Tabula Rasa included)?

    I also resent how game reviewers approach Blizz’s stuff. If anybody else put out a product as incredibly derivative as Starcraft 2 was they would have been creamed by the press. But it is Blizz, so they got a red carpet review rollout and a free pass. I couldn’t believe it when I read from many gaming magazines something along the lines of “Is Starcraft 2 just like the first game? Pretty much… But who cares!”. I care! The RTS genre was evolved by the likes of THQ with the Dawn of War and Company of Heroes series, why are we letting Blizzard drag us back into the game design stone ages?

  7. Sergorn says:

    I gotta disagree about Dune 2 being “not all that fun”. It was an awesome game in pretty much every aspect for its time. If it weren’t for the “Dungeon levels” (which for some reason dissapeared in Warcraft 2), Warcraft would almost have felt like a straight port of Dune 2 with a new skin.

    I’d agree about the negative influence Diablo had on RPGs. I loved Diablo – I do feel few other hack’n slash RPGs ever managed to bring the same fun as Diablo actually… but i feel Diablo in responsible for turning inventory and looting in pretty much any modern RPG where it has turned into “the quest for the best item” with a gazillion kind of weapons and armor, and customization which personally just bores me to death when in a regular RPG. Ditto with loot. (note that I don’t mind this aspect in Diablo…. but Diablo is not Baldur’s Gate 2 see ?)

    Regarding MMOs, while there is little doubt WoW probably worsned things – the trend was already very much like this after Everquest’s release. Even before WoW was done pretty much every MMO post EQ were… well, basically Everquest clones. Blizzard merely did like all the other developpers did and got a success that I can’t seem to explain to this day (Evequest 2 was a better game IMO). I have to admit I had the same feeling with Tabula Rasa when I tried the open beta though: WoW with guns. Which I’m pretty sure was not the original concept of the game. I blame NC Soft.

    Regarding RTS I don’t think you can put the blame on Blizzard either. There has been a few exceptions, but RTS have been mostly formulating ever since Dune 2, Warcraft and C&C. Starcraft 2 offered little new in terme of gameplay mechanics from what I can tell (though I hear the in between mission stuff a la Wing Commander is quite cool) but it’s hardly the only culprit: Command & Conquer 3 was basically Command & Conquer 2 with a new coat of paint – and it was great fun. So it’s not necesarilly an issue. (Now I gotta point that C&C4 completly changed the C&C formula and got bashed for this very reason oh well…). But I mean even if there was some change to the formula with games like Dawn of War II… these are very much the minority and not the norm in the genre.

    I would agree however about the press reception. Some companies like Blizzard or Valve gets a lot of very forgiving reviews that basically don’t see any flaws… and that other companies would never get away with. This is also true from many gamers as well… though I somehow suspect the reason Valve and Blizzard gets a free pass is because they haven’t turned to the “evil darkside of console gaming” 😛

  8. Handshakes says:

    I’m willing to be a bit more forgiving with Valve and their episodic releases. I tend to not like their single player (or coop, in the case of L4D) games, but I just think the press doesn’t know how to review them.

    The episodes only last 3-5 hours, which is fine. The thing is, you can make just about any decent game feel really fun and fresh for 4 hours. The hard part is making a game that doesn’t feel like a drag past the 7-8 hour mark to get to that 10 hour sweet spot.

    Still, Portal has some of the best story telling you’ll ever find in a game (FPS or otherwise), and TF2 is probably the best team based multiplayer FPS ever created. Throw in some of the best modding support in the industry, and them leading the way with the best in digital distribution, and I can’t help but mostly like Valve. There are just too many ‘bests’ in there to ignore. 🙂

  9. Sergorn says:

    Heh, honestly I think Portal is one of the most overrated crap in videogame history.

    Well crap is exagerated, but the game is mediocre at best. It’s basically a puzzle game which is fun for the first few levels and then get boring fast. I thought the plot was goddawful (just like… everything Valve turns out really) and in addition the computer voice was such a pain to hear I’d almost wanted to play without sound 😛

    I’m still baffled this game gets so much praise and it’s one of those things that I feel would never have gotten that if it hadn’t been a Valve game. Hell, Prey did a great use of portals in gameplay long before Portal and never gets any credit.

    Personally I see Valve as a company who did ONE trully great game: meaning the original Half-Life which brought quite a bit of freshness to the FPS genre. Then they did a Half Life 2 which was fun but sadly inferior to the first one, and two episodes which goes somewhere betwene mediocre and terrible. Nevermind the fact that Episode 3 isn’t coming, but I’ve stop caring.

    And well Valve brought Steam… and I have a strong dislike for Steam and digital distribution, but what can I say, I’m a an old schooler.

    I half of expect Valve to stop doing games down the road and just do Steam really.

  10. Infinitron says:

    A big part of Portal’s success is because it successfully tapped into the Internet’s “meme” subculture. (TF2 also did this)
    Winning the hearts and minds of 4chan is a good strategy for popular success.

    Also, if you don’t like GLaDOS’ voice then what do you think of SHODAN?

  11. Sergorn says:

    Can’t comment on SHODAN – I only played the demo of System Shock and it had no voices, and while I did play a couple of hours of System Shock 2 I didn’t went far enough to hear Shodan I believe.

    To be honest though, I would expect System Shock to have mediocre at best voice like most games of the ’90 really 😛

    -Sergorn

  12. Handshakes says:

    I thought Portal did a great job of storytelling through the environment. Instead of coming right out and spewing exposition at you like 99% of other games (Bioware rpgs included), they leave it to you to explore the environments that are dripping with subtext to slowly but surely figure out what is actually going on. This is the definition of good story telling in film, and Portal is one of the only games to do it right.

    Not once does the game tell you why you are there or what is going on. Instead you accidentally access an off limits room and find a bit of writing on the wall, you find old cans of beans being warmed on an old PSU, you see an Aperture Science office slide presentation going over how they are losing out to Black Mesa in government grants, you see the recipe for a coconut cake on a monitor, etc… It starts out as just a puzzle game, a bunch of unconnected exercises that test your brain and agility. But little by little you get clues that something isn’t right – not because anybody comes out and tells you, but because the environments themselves show it.

    For me, anyway, this is storytelling at its best. My favorite moments in the Ultima games were when I would come across a dead body in the middle of nowhere, and in his pockets (for who doesn’t think to loot random dead bodies?) I find items that hint at his former life and eventual fate. It made the world so much more alive and mysterious.

    As for TF2, it isn’t popular because it taps into some 4chan meme culture. The game is just the most perfectly balanced team shooter ever made. The fact that it oozes with character certainly doesn’t hurt it, but even if it never cracked a smile the gameplay would still be considered top notch.