Ray Muzyka Speaks Out About Mass Effect 3
It’s a surprisingly heartfelt post, which I will excerpt at some length (though not in its entirety):
As co-founder and GM of BioWare, I’’m very proud of the ME3 team; I personally believe Mass Effect 3 is the best work we’ve yet created. So, it’s incredibly painful to receive feedback from our core fans that the game’s endings were not up to their expectations. Our first instinct is to defend our work and point to the high ratings offered by critics — but out of respect to our fans, we need to accept the criticism and feedback with humility.
I believe passionately that games are an art form, and that the power of our medium flows from our audience, who are deeply involved in how the story unfolds, and who have the uncontested right to provide constructive criticism. At the same time, I also believe in and support the artistic choices made by the development team. The team and I have been thinking hard about how to best address the comments on ME3’s endings from players, while still maintaining the artistic integrity of the game.
Mass Effect 3 concludes a trilogy with so much player control and ownership of the story that it was hard for us to predict the range of emotions players would feel when they finished playing through it. The journey you undertake in Mass Effect provokes an intense range of highly personal emotions in the player; even so, the passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has genuinely surprised us. This is an issue we care about deeply, and we will respond to it in a fair and timely way. We’re already working hard to do that.
To that end, since the game launched, the team has been poring over everything they can find about reactions to the game — industry press, forums, Facebook, and Twitter, just to name a few. The Mass Effect team, like other teams across the BioWare Label within EA, consists of passionate people who work hard for the love of creating experiences that excite and delight our fans. I’m honored to work with them because they have the courage and strength to respond to constructive feedback.
Building on their research, Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey. You’ll hear more on this in April. We’re working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we’ve received. This is in addition to our existing plan to continue providing new Mass Effect content and new full games, so rest assured that your journey in the Mass Effect universe can, and will, continue.
As I remarked to Sergorn Dragon via email, it would seem evident now that BioWare is going to do something about the ending of the game (Dr. Muzyka says as much, above), though what exactly is…not specified. The worst case scenario, I think, is a full-on rewrite of the ending sequence, pushed out via a multi-gigabyte download…mirroring what’s being done even now with the most recent Mass Effect novel. A slightly better case would, I guess, be the rumoured “The Truth” add-on, which some fans believe has been planned all along.
Note: Spoilers follow!
Then there’s the indoctrination theory, as it has come to be known, which asserts (if I have it right) that the ending of Mass Effect 3 does not depict actual events in the life of Commander Shepard, but instead depicts a hallucination or dream he suffers through after being blasted by Harbinger during the Battle of London. The theory maintains that Shepard, having been exposed to Reaper technology many times during the course of the series, has now finally begun to succumb to the siren call of his mortal enemy; the endgame sequence depicts his struggle to retain ownership of his own will, and control over his own mind.
It’s a reasonable enough theory, with one (that I can see) major fly in its…lotion: the Prothean VI on Thessia didn’t detect that Shepard was indoctrinated. That’s not to say it couldn’t have happened (maybe it happened on Horizon?), but it goes to show that the theory isn’t fully airtight.
Apart from this issue, however, the theory has some merit, and I like in particular how it ties back to the “from the rubble” shot (which graces the final moments of certain version’s of the game’s ending cutscene). Perhaps more importantly, the theory leaves the ball in BioWare’s court as to how to best capitalize on the interpretations of the imagery of the finale; it actually allows BioWare to preserve the original ending, and even treat it as a valid outcome in some circumstances (any that don’t lead to a “from the rubble” sequence, in fact). I, for one, hope that the Mass Effect team already — always, really — had plans to capitalize on these things, that some sort of follow-up to the game’s otherwise very disconcerting ending was always planned.
Because if that isn’t the case, that means that BioWare is bowing to fan pressure and making a potentially hasty correction to the ending of the game. This has good and bad implications.
On one hand, things like “Reclaim Mass Effect” and the Kickstarter events of recent months show that studios are willing to directly engage fans — and even involve then in the development process in more direct ways…especially if said fans are willing to be constructive rather than trollish. There’s something to that, and more than a few people have already speculated that this might herald a new era in gaming and game development, one that sees much closer and more direct engagement between fans and studios. That’s pretty to think about.
On the other hand, well…fans are fans, and the psychology of fans as a group is, if I may say, very fickle. By which I mean there is often a rather stark contrast between what fans SAY they want and what fans SHOW (by their actions) that they want. There is a certain sense of entitlement to be found in fans, and an always-present mentality of never being satisfied that secretly isn’t meant to be acted upon. And when it IS acted upon, the backlash is often even worse.
If BioWare is pandering now…yeah, that’s (potentially) not good. For them, or (probably) for us. On the other hand, if they’ve had something up their sleeves all along, that could be one of the ballsiest moves in gaming history on their part.
We will, as the good doctor says, know more in April.
Considering how the leaked plot (which by all account is al least one year old) had the exact same ending, I don’t believe for a second Bioware planned for this.
Honestly I think this is just silly and is going to set a dangerous precedent. Even assuming we live a best case scenario here and Bioware offere this new/improved ending for free… I can already see the “ending DLCs” coming from less scrupulous developpers down the road.
Oh well.
As for the indoctrination, I’ll say it again that’s just wishful again – this does not fit with the leaked plot, with the claims of the developpers, with Mac Walters’ rough draft, or with the game reall – I would argue the only point that give some credence are the dreams, and that’s really al ong shot.
I really hope they don’t follow that road for that “ending content”
Feel free to tell me I’m speaking out of place since I’ve never played any of the Mass Effect games and therefore have no investment in the plot or characters. In that light I just watched all the endings of the game on YouTube. I have plenty of criticism for the production values all around. A valiant attempt at cinema, but pretty damn cheesy and poorly-executed in many ways. Despite all that, I respect that their story, while deeply in the realm of “swallow some really crazy shit, because that’s what we’re feeding you”, goes beyond rescuing princess Zelda. I think the fans who are offended or disappointed by the ending need to start writing their own stories and stop bitching about those being written for them. All fiction is take it or leave it. If you don’t like that then pen your own and whimper apologetically when your fans scornfully attempt to correct you. Walk a mile, basically. Until you have walked that mile, SHUT THE FUCK UP.
@Sergorn Agreed.
So glad I decided not to buy Bioware games on Day 1 anymore
I’ll play ME3 for a laugh when it hits the bargain bin
I think it’s unfair to dismiss this as a case of entitled fanboyism. If someone lays down $60 (or more in an era of special editions and day one, already on disc DLC), they have every right to speak out if they find the experience to be unsatisfactory. It’s not like they have the option for a refund in most cases, like they would with just about any other type of consumer transaction.
I just think it is silly.
The ending of ME3 is no different than all the other contreversial endings or works on the history of videogames or entertainment.
I mean what’s the next step ? Should we reado all the controversial endings ? That’s just silly.
As I said: this is setting a dangerous precedant.
Even assuming this ending revamp goes in the best possible way, that it’s distributed for free, and that everybody is happy with the end result and live happily ever after… this does not bode well for future games, because you can be CERTAIN there will be less scrupoulous developpers and publishers that will go at one “Oh screw the ending, it’s allright if it sucks we can sell a proper one on DLC later on!”
I know some people are saying “There has been ending changed before” – which is true, but it’s pretty much always cases where the original creator and director couldn’t do the ending he wanted originally (ie. Blade Runner), not because of complains (though of course sometime the studio or producer enforced ending was forced by focus group… this is what is happening here really with fans forcing what they want).
And what of people who actually you know… like the ending as it is? They’ll be supposed to just accept the new one?
No this is silly, and also really… the game has just been released and there is just not enough distance to really judge the effect of it.
You know I’m reminded of what is undoubtably a video game classic.
Final Fantasy VII.
When the game was released 15 years ago, the ending was *very* controversial. In essence, the ending is a lot like Mass Effect 3: nothing is explained, it’s very short, very open ended, it doesn’t deal with the fate of any of the main characters, and just leave people go “Huh ?” with a slight post credits scene giving some weird hint of the future.
Had this game been released today, there’d be a lot of outrage (there already was quite a bit in ’97… but fans didn’t had pushed entitlement to such extremes) and go knows what might happen.
But in hindsight ? In hindishg now a lot of fans like the open ended-ness of FFVII and feel it works, regrettinng even in some cases that Square eventually went and did stories set after the original game, feeling it diminishes the sense of mystery.
I’m not saying this is what would happen with ME3’s ending… but deciding a couple of weeks after release to change things is a just a bad idea all arround.
And basically really – creators are allowed to screw their works. So Bioware screwed ME3’s ending ? Geez… well they’re entitled too, it’s just a game, get a life and move on. I find these kinds of overreaction to be ridiculous and amost scary really.
And to finish upon these, there are a lot of debates about videogames as art… yeah well, with things like this I guess they clearly stop any pretense to exist and an artform, as this just means publishers will go more and more through focus groups and testings to judge endings of games stories and won’t take any risk anymore.
Ranting Off.
“And basically really – creators are allowed to screw their works. So Bioware screwed ME3?s ending ? Geez… well they’re entitled too, it’s just a game, get a life and move on. I find these kinds of overreaction to be ridiculous and amost scary really.”
So if you bought an $80 toaster and it didn’t perform as advertised, would you “get a life and move on” or would you, quite reasonably, be annoyed?
And it’s fairly clear the ending doesn’t live up to hype such as:
“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t say any more than that…”
“You’ll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we’re going to provide some answers to these people.”
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886/1
“And to finish upon these, there are a lot of debates about videogames as art… yeah well, with things like this I guess they clearly stop any pretense to exist and an artform, as this just means publishers will go more and more through focus groups and testings to judge endings of games stories and won’t take any risk anymore.”
I think the current ending is far less about art and far more about A) a nebulous ending to set up future DLC/sequels and/or B) EA rushing a product out the door before its time (sound familiar?).
Maybe he meant to say “You will” instead of “How could you”? Because really, the differences between the game’s endings are very slight, and thus arguably do force players into a bespoke (“custom-made”) ending that everyone gets, more or less.
As to the U9 parallel…we haven’t (that I’m aware) been informed as to whether ME3 was rushed out the door or not, nor by whose decree any such hypothetical rushing took place.
Sorry but the toaster comparison is just… stupid.
First.
We’re talking about entertainment here: when you buy a game, go see a movie, read a book… you know there’s always a chance you’ll end up dissapointed. That doesn’t give you any right to ask for a refund or demand the story to be rewritten to suit YOUR preferences.
Now of course you have the right to be pissed of if you don’t like it… but that’s about it. The kind of reaction to ME3’s ending can get ridiculous or even pathethic. So yeah really there are people who deserves a well placed “get a life”, because really is someone can go and fill an FTC complain because he’s been dissapointed by the end of a freaking videogame… one REALLY does need to reasses his priorities in life.
Second.
It’s not like the game is broken (as if… well you bought a toaster who didn’t toast anything), indeed most people agree the game IS excellent, there are many just people who didn’t like the ending (which in the end IS the ending the developpers wanted to be told) – so yes even assuming some content had to be cut for time constraints, this is ALL about the art of it because at the core a lot of these displeased fans juts don’t like the concept of the endings, the choices provided, the blowing of the relays and the explanation about the Reapers – all of which are the core of this ending.
Meaning that even if Bioware add some content, with more of an epilogue feel, I doubt this would please all the displeased fans, which is why I fear we might end up with something radically different.
I would also argue that the harm is done in any case: the ending is there, people have seen it – changing it not gonna erase the reception of the dissapointment people felt while watch it.
So yeah the reasonnable things to do would be for Bioware to learn from this mistake in their next game and fans to move on… But or course “hardcore” fans can’t to that can they ? After all we still have people whining over Ultima VIII almost twenty years after the fact. *sigh*
(Of course I’ll also avoir to comment how pleasing fans is something basically impossible to do : MGS4 basically took the polar opposite approach with a straight ending that solved everything, explained everything, tied everything, epilogued everything… and it still ended up very controversial amongst fans of the series. Bottom line is: you can’t win with fans)
Good point about FF7, although I think people grant more leeway to the Japanese on such matters, because, you know, they’re all about being weird and stylized.
@Infinitron – That is very true. People tend to love opaque weird and open ending when it related to Japanese stuff, and… not so much when it come from US/western stuff (case in point: the Matrix Trilogy and all its weird philosophical mumbo jumbo and its “Huh?” ending – that didn’t sit well with most people, I think this would have been better received had it been some Japanese anime :P)
@WtF – To be fair, while the game ends up with basically a variation of the same common cinematic, one could argue that the future of the galaxy would end up *extremly* different depending on the final choice made by Shepard and the choices made during the game as well. Though I guess this only gives more fuel to the complain that the game might have needed more an epilogue in a Fallout/DA-ish kind of way. But I dunno, I didn’t mind this aspect personally – I’m okay with having an open end leaving me to imagine what might have happened to the worlds and the galaxy (though I guess, most are not).
Regarding the U9 parallele well, had ME3 came out last fall as originally planned I would have suspected it to be rushed, but not so much as it. Sure there have been cuts and all – but cuts not does necessarilly equals rushed released (hell, the came is very well polished and stable – rushed games are not). In any case I don’t think they they rushed the ending, because that’s not what comes out from the interviews, they wanted it to be weird and open ended (there is even and itw of Corey Burton and Mac Walters where they exlpains how they cut most of the dialogues with the “final NPC” in order to leave more to the player’s imagination).
And as I pointed… It’s still the same ending that was in the cards a year ago, so the whole “they screwed the ending to make a DLC” theory doesn’t make much sense when you think about it.
I mena technically they were not lying when they said there are 17 endings. There are: except they are all variations of the same basics cutscenes, and that’s the thing here for most people that doesn’t count because they’d have imagined 17 completly differents endings (I’d point this is not the first time such thing happens, there was similar things about Fallout 3/NV’s endings variations).
I’d also argue the game does answere about a lot of thing – I mean in essence the one thing it doesn’t answers is “what happens after the end” which is a major issue for most, but as I said this kind of ending doesn’t bug me much (eck Star Wars just ends with the bad guys being beaten and most people don’t about “what next?” – epilogues are not always the best ways to end things IMO).
Anyone that tells people to shut up and stop complaining really annoys me. Some people like the ending. Some don’t. The fact is that Bioware did, up to the week before release, promise something they didn’t deliver. That is an objective fact. Anyone that thinks people have no right to complain about that needs to really think about that.
Having a difference of opinion on changing the ending is fine however. There should be two sides to that. But a “SHUT THE FUCK UP” is a completely ridiculous comment to people complaining that “There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets?” means that you will actually, not matter how you played the game, be presented with the same 3 options as everyone else, and get the same three videos as everyone else no matter what (and “different” means different colours basically).
People have a right to complain about getting something that is the complete opposite of what was promised.
However, feel free to troll anyone that says “It ruined the entire series”. Mass Effect 3, minus the last 30 minutes, was still possibly the best game I’ve ever played (hard to tell exactly… there was nothing at all wrong with it apart from the ending… but it could have had more awesomeness packed in).
I certainly agree that people have the right the complains (altough I have to put a limit when it gets to insults and personnal attacks), but asking or requesting a different ending is just too far to me.
Unless we have Bioware coming out and saying this is not the exact ending they wanted and had to cut corners to get it done in time (ie. like say Obsidizn on KOTOR2), changing the ending is something that bothers me on a matter of principle.
And yes, those “it ruins the entire series” comment just annoys me – this is an opinion I can’t relate to: just because the ending of something suck I fail to see how that should negate everything that come before, and I’d argue ME3 was the best game in the series none the less – it had flaws but so did ME1 (and ME1 had a LOT of them but people forget them because it was the most “RPGish”) and ME2.
@Thepal, I have to agree with Sergorn. There is a wide gulf between “Boy howdy that movie/book/game sure was stupid.” and saying so loudly and “Boy howdy that movie/book/game sure was stupid. I demand that you change it for me.” The latter is the attitude I can’t stomach.
“Having a difference of opinion on changing the ending is fine however.”
That’s a quote by me. I think it is perfectly valid to be on either side of that discussion regarding the ending being changed. There are reasons for both sides. My issue was with people saying people need to stop complaining in general.
@ThePal “SHUT THE FUCK UP” summarizes my feelings about people who create nothing but expect everything. I’m not trying to say the thought police should silence them or that they have no right to speak.
The majority of fans complaining about the ending (and people in general) know next to nothing about what it takes to create a game, much less a game of the scale of ME3. People want more choices which affect the plot, not realizing that doing so creates an exponential pattern of new choices. It’s not realistically possible to create even the simplest representative endgame cut scene after even a few recursions of choice. At some point these choices need to start merging back together toward a small collection of endgames. I think fans have unreasonable expectations these days and snub their noses at greatness because of overblown perceptions of failure.
There’s also the fact that if there is to be any sequel, DLC or otherwise, there’d have to be one for each ending. At that point the problem would have evolved from multiple endings to multiple games with multiple endings, wash, rinse, repeat.
This is obviously a case of you having not played the games. I understand that having lots of choices makes the endgame harder to create, but the fact is Bioware did a really bad job. It wasn’t just they didn’t take into account the choices, they completely went against the choices made so far. It doesn’t matter how you play the series, your character plays as a person who will fight for humanity (and possibly the other races) no matter what, against impossible odds, despite the fact that winning is extremely unlikely.
At the end, a thing you have just met (as in, a minute ago) gives you the choice of A: destroying everything, B: destroying everything or C: destroying everything. Your characters response in almost all situations would be “Screw you! We’re going to keep fighting!”. But all you can do is say “Yes Mr Thing I Don’t Know And Have No Reason To Trust! I will choose one of your three ridiculous choices”.
The second really badly done part about the ending is that your friends (some of whom were just with you a couple of minutes before and should be dead) and your ship have somehow all gotten together and are flying off somewhere for no reason whatsoever. It makes absolutely no sense. You’re in the final battle. Everything is on the line. You are MIA. And your ship and friends are flying somewhere with no explanation instead of fighting or looking for you?
If Bioware chose to do an ending that everyone hated but it made sense, that would be one thing. The problem is, it doesn’t make sense. And by that I mean it really doesn’t make sense. The only way to make sense of it is to make all sorts of assumptions that are in no way based on anything. For your friends, it would have to be hours/days later for them to be together on the ship flying somewhere. But the ending scene clearly shows everything happening straight away. It makes no sense.
When you add into that the fact Bioware constantly said the ending would be based on previous player choices, and then the ending takes into account no prior choices, you’re going to get upset fans.
The annoying thing is that people that tell the fans to shutup don’t understand the situation. We don’t care the player dies. We all assumed we would. We don’t care it isn’t a happy ending. We assumed most choices would lead to a not completely happy ending. The main arguments are that:
1. It doesn’t make sense.
2. It goes against what our character would do.
3. The 16 “completely different” endings are 95% the same, just with different colours. And the only parts that are different don’t actually make any difference (eg, the bad guys can live or die, but either way, they are neutered and no longer an issue). And the parts that are the same make no sense or destroy the universe. In every ending the galaxy as we know it is pretty much destroyed and will lead to mass-extinction/genocide (which basically negates everything you did in all three games. You reunited those races? That’s great! They’re all dead, killing each other or can no longer interact with each other), and your crew is stranded somewhere because they were flying away for an unexplained reason that makes no sense.
Bioware didn’t just make an ending people don’t like. They made a bad ending. A really bad ending. The worst ending of any game/movie/anything I’ve ever played/seen. That’s not me being overdramatic. It is that bad. I’m not going to say it ruined the series. Mass Effect is still my favourite series of the last decade. Mass Effect 3 was an awesome game. But the ending was really, really bad.
Imagine if at the end of Return of the Jedi Luke set off an explosion that made it so no space ships could ever fly again and the Force stopped working (because the Emperor said he had to and Luke just said “Ok”). And it then cut to the Millenium Falcon crash landing on a distant planet (because for some reason it ran away from the last battle without fighting or finding out what happened to Luke) and Han, Leia (who were on Endor moments before) and Ben Kenobi (who was dead) walked off the ship and were stranded on that unknown planet.
And then it fades to black. Apart from the obvious things that make no sense, you are left with one burning question. With the entire rebel fleet and any imperials who survived stranded on Endor (as space travel is no longer possible)… how long until people start killing each other and eating the Ewoks (Mass Effect was a little worse, as the planet the entire fleet was orbitting has just been pretty much destroyed and would have very little resources).
That is the ending to Mass Effect.
Oh, and I was also going to mention for the Star Wars ending that Coruscant (and many other planets) wouldn’t have the necessary resources to survive (since there is no more space travel) and pretty much everyone in the galaxy would die.
“The majority of fans complaining about the ending (and people in general) know next to nothing about what it takes to create a game, much less a game of the scale of ME3.”
The problem is that Bioware themselves promised multiple, nuanced endings:
Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about eventually tying them back together somewhere.
— Casey Hudson (Director)
“…it’s not like a classic game ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things – it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it’s going to be different for everyone who plays it.”
— Casey Hudson (Director)
“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that’s very different based on what you would do in those situations.”
— Casey Hudson (Director)
“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome.”
— Official Mass Effect Website
“There are many different endings.”
–Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and say they probably intended to deliver on the above promises until the specters of DLC and sequelitis reared their ugly heads. First quote says it all really.
I just disagree about the ending “not making any sense”. I think it makes sense for the most part, and I’d argue the choices provided makes sense as well (bluntly: just because some people don’t like them, doesn’t mean they don’t make sense) even if a couple more would have been nice. I also don’t feel accepting these choices was out of character for Shephard… but I guess this all depends on how someone views his/her Shephard.
Personally my two mains beefs for the ending is the whole Normandy in FTL bit which indeed does not make sense, and the fact that the ending movie is basically the same no matter what – had each movies been different this would have worked much better.
But I feel destroying the Mass Relay was a wonderful way to end the trilogy – of course it leaves the galaxy in a crappy position (altough I have to respectufully disagree about the view that “everyone in the galaxy will die” this is IMO a bit short sighted) but I thought it was fitting with the tone of the game – you save the Galaxy from the Reapers but at great cost. Fine by me. I feel a very cookier cutter happy ending would have been out of place with the story the game was trying to convey (Happy ending is not always the best from a storytelling perspective).
The ending of ME3 is like the polar OPPOSITE of any ending you’d want if you wanted to do a sequel (which is why I rolled my eyes when I saw some people suggesting EA made them do this ending).
I don’t believe in DLC-ite either because as I pointed above: the game had the exact same ending one year ago. Word is this is basically the ending Corey Hudeson and Mac Walters wanted and imposed to the rest of the team – and I can most definitly believe that
Everyone dying isn’t short-sited. Without daily deliveries people on built up planets with no agricutural industry would start dying within the week. There would be no way for most of them to get food. And that is just the planets that rely on food.
We have a whole bunch of Krogan trapped on the Turian homeworld. Without Shephard, or any idea what is going on, the Krogan would quickly revert to hating and attacking the Turians. Similar things would happen everywhere. Everything Paragon Shephard did in three games would be undone.
That is all just logic. If in millenia the races haven’t been able to create their own means of long distance space travel, they aren’t going to be able to do it before the galaxy tears itself apart.
And Shephard would know this when he takes something he has just let’s word for everything and blindly does what he is told.
When the Emperor said all hope was lost and everyone was going to die… Luke picked up his damn lightsaber.
*met’s not let’s
Sorry but we’ll have to agree to disagree about this. Sure the collapse of the relay will lead to a galactic dark ages, and some chaos. But saying everyone will die is a silly and gross overexagation especially when you’re saying this is just as bad as letting the Reapers winning.
Now the bigger worlds, obviously would have issues since they depended a lot on imported goods… OTHO it’s not like say Tessia or the Salarian homeworld looked like barren world with no room to… you know, actually planting stuff and growing food ? The overpopulation would be an issue, altough one might argue this could potentially have been at least partially solved depending on well… how many people the Reapers have killed already. Cold logic. In any case saying that the civilizations of these worlds would definitly die… well I think that’s a very pessimistic view which is not necessarilly the most plausible one, and it feels to me that it steems from dissapointment more than anything else.
And let’s not forget that the major races have plenty of colony worlds. And sure while some worlds like Noveria would have a hard time surviving without outside help and ressources… there are plenty of worlds like Eden Prime with are ripe and fertile and offer plenty for the people there to live, to survie and to extend their own civilization.
Tuchanka I would argue would end up a total mess or evolve well depending on Shepard’s choice. Providing Eve is alive and is pushing forwards to women to take a bigger role, I could actually see the Krogan propering after a while even without space travel. Remember: they had a huge civilization on their planet before wiping themselves out and before having been uplifted by the Salarians, and the game clearly hints that it could be reborn just as it hints as Tuchanka could heal itself as well as shown by plants growing up at last in the ruins. Now of course the Krogan could also destroy each others, but I’d argue some prospect in the Tuchanka plotline do offer a sense of hope which IMO wouldn’t be gone just because the relays are gone.
Oh and of course: the Quarrian would be the better off post ending, providing you saved them. They have reclaimed a vast and fertile homeworld and while it will take a while for their bodie to fully adapt (less if you got peace with the Geth going) well… they have a freaking world! Before you point about the Quarian fleet being on Earth I’ll just say: duh. Of course, but it wouldn’t make any sense at all for the Quarians to bring all the civilians along in the battle for Earth, even assuming they brought the Liveship with them. They’d likely have left most of the civilian population on Rannoch in which case… (indeed you get reports ingame on how Quarian are already settling on Rannoch, building new homes with the Geth’s help and so on). So yeah the Quarrians will be fine.
Now I’ll grant the Turians and Krogan on Palaven will most likely be at each other’s throat… but erm well there are still more Turians that Krogan you know. So in this case the Turians would most likely get rid in the Krogan in time and begin to rebuild.
So no, the collapse of the relay leaves the galaxy in a mess yes, but a mess that can be fixed with time. I honestly find the whole “the galaxy is DOOMED” idea to be a bit silly.
This is a very bittersweet ending, and frankly I think this is just very fitting with the story I followed for a hundred hours in the span of three games.
(Needless to say, it also opens a world of storytelling possibilities for a new ME story/reimagination set thousands of year later).
You’re also forgetting that… well they still have FTL ship, and while a lot of system are out of reach, some are none the less even if it takes a long time.
Also it’s not like the galaxy is completly cut off from each other : QUantum Entenglemetn communication still work you know.
Now of course, I find it unlikely that this would get all races to cooperate in this new galaxy (THIS is too much of a silly cookier cutter happy ending), but the other extreme feels just as silly as far as I’m concerned.
I’m sorry but I think you missed one of the point of the series here. None of the races ever developped their own mean of long distance because galactic civilization was always reliant on the Mass Relays, the tech set up by the Reapers to trap them. And with the Mass Relays, there was never any need for the races to develop another form of long distance travel. That’s the whole point of the trap set by the Reapers : the races are doomed from the start because they rely on the Citadel and the Relays.
That’s also one of the highly symbolic point of the ending: with the destruction of the relays the galaxy is finally free of the Reapers’ control – now the races will trully evolve on their own. It will take time sure, but why not ? Where you see the destruction of the relay as OMG ITS DOOMING everything, I see it as creating a HUGE hurdle for the galaxy, but a hurdle that the races in the universe might overcome in centuries and millenias to come.
I would also say BTW that having the relay’s destruction being a consequence of the use of the Crucible is a wonderful idea, because it ties with one of the main point the game is making in that they have NO IDEA what the Crucible will actually do, and that while it might defeat the Reapers, this might not be without consequences. Hackett even bring up this point earlier in the game when he mentions how scientist in the 20th century feared the atomic bomb might consume Earth’s atmosphere and were unsure of the consquence… but still decided to use it. (Enough foreshadowing for you ?)
If you’d just use the Crucible and there, the Reapers are gone and everyone is happy, now THIS would have been a true Deus Ex Machina. The game is making a point here; everything comes with consequences.
And regarding Shephard. Yeah now: I’m still asking what i ask on teh other topic :
What other choices would he have ?
Saying “screw you, I’m not accepting your choices” and letting the Reapers win ? Because that IS the only other choice. Period. None of the offered choices are perfect or idealistic of course, but I think that was the point – there’s not supposed to be one clear happy ending and Bioware wanted us to choose between three less than ideal outcomes.
(Please note here that I’m talking about the concept and thematics behind the endings, not the presentation itself which does have some VERY obvious issues).
Now of course, perhaps the game SHOULD have offered the “Screw you” option and show the consequences of this (ie a cinematic telling us how galactic civilization was wipeout out, and a 50000 years later bit showing us the Reapers returning and the cycle starting anew : grimm but logical ending), this would have been nice. And as I’ve pointed in my other post other, I felt the game should have offered another option to make a claim for Peace providing you have made peace happen between Geth and Quarion and some other conditions to be reached – but the three choices offered at the end of the game are not senseless by any stretch of the imagination and god you know what ? They are actually thought provocking. They made me think, as I watched my screen wondering for minutes what I should do and what might be the outcome that feels the best to me – and there aren’t many games taht can make that claim.
Now of you course, you might argue the choice in invalitaded on account that you’re basically getting the same cinematic with few variations, and this is true to a degree. But I didn’t know that when I made that choice, and when I got my synthesis ending, it just seemed fitting (in spite of the obvious Normandy plot hole), right up to Joker and EDI crashing out in a remote world as a symbolic synthethic Adam&Eve of their new civilizations.
And that’s why I do not want Bioware the change the ending, fix it and improve on it – why not, but it’s a great ending in concept and doesn’t deserve to be erased from existance even if Bioware failed in their execution.
On a final note, I think this is probably the while I’m gonna say about ME3’s ending for a while – I think I’ve said all I needed to say and I’m getting kinda tired of these debates (not with you Thepal, but there are tons of those everywhere :P)
Now let’s just wait and see what these game content initiatives are gonna be…
I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Yes, not everyone would die. Yes, eventually civilisation would grow again throughout the galaxy. But that doesn’t change the fact that many (IMO most) people in the galaxy would die and Shephard’s choices throughout the games would not make much of a (or any) difference apart from the Krogan genophage and the Quarian homeworld.
Meh. For now, I’ll just ignore the Normandy, and assume that by controlling the Reapers (which is the best choice from my point of view) I can ferry people back to their planets and help fix things. The Geth continue to help the Quarians. The Krogan manage to survive on their barren planet and thrive. The Rachni manages to not get recaptured immediately this time and they grow as a race. And the galaxy continues to thrive.
But if Garrus touches my Tali on that planet, there will be hell to pay. I’ll turn those Reapers right around and go blow him up.
Better late than never, but after reading the comments subsequent to my own it looks like one or more of three things happened with the ending:
1) The writers of the ME universe were overruled by less skilled taleweavers within the development team for yet unknown reasons.
2) Many fans reacted to the ending on a gut level, feeling unfulfilled for less cerebral reasons.
3) Many fans are as smart, if not smarter, than the ME universe writers and were completely offended and unsatisfied with the culmination of all they’d come to know and respect about the ME universe, and rightly so.
I had no idea how complex the ME universe was until reading these posts. It’s a fantasy/sci-fi novel, basically, and a deep one. Being that complex, any ending less thoughtful than all the elements preceding it would be a kick to the groin of those invested in the game up to that point.
While I think my original point was valid, I don’t think it applies to this game. I fall on my sword. Carry on. 🙂
I think one the issues of the ME3 ending is that is really constrasts with the rest of the series.
What I mean is that ME features a rather down to earth Sci-Fi universe with a lot of science behind it. However the ending went for a *very* abstract execution, basically focusing more on the “Huh ?” effect that trying to explain anything.
I think that’s a wanted effect – based on what the lead writers said they actually had written a LOT of explanations with a much more complex final conversation dwelving in depth on the actual choices given to the player… but they decided to cut it for a more abstract approach. It might have gone better with some fans had it not been done this way.
But the ending seems to me as Bioware trying to do smarter and sublter stuff that they usually do (this was true of DAII too actually), but obviously not succeeding.
But it’s hard to really gauge all that realle – there are people who really have a gut reaction of the ending and just can’t stomach the idea behind it, but also other who would probably have liked it with a better execution. Kind of a Ultima IX situation here, and you can’t really put a number on who would have liked what.
Blunt force presentations of ideas are not BioWare’s strength. Their strength is in working with a theme over the course of numerous hours of gameplay, slowly enriching it, adding to it, fleshing it out…all building toward a grand thing.
When they try to get fancy and step away from that approach…eh, the results are often “meh”.
When they have they tried to step away from that approach except with Dragon Age II and (to a much lesser degree) Mass Effect 3’s ending though ?
And really as flawed as Dragon Age II was, I thought its plot and writing was pretty great from the most part, and amongst the most interesting Bioware has offered in the past even if it was sorely lacking in term of true consequences of choices. It felt like an Obsidian story at times, which says a lot.
So they’re 2 for 2, in other words. 🙂
Since when did they end up meh ? 😛
As far as I’m concerned was Dragon Age II was a success on its plot approach which was unfairly bashed because of poor gameplay decisions.
And ME3 well. I won’t open that can of worms again.
Gameplay aside, I can see how DA2’s plot was an attempt to create an Obsidian-like story, but it was mostly a failed attempt.
I loved DA2 (I prefer it to DA1). I think they mostly received backlash for going so different from game 1. The same backlash they had from ME2 (and started to have from ME3 until people started finishing the game and the ending debate drowned out everything else)
And I liked U9’s ending 😛
@Infinitron – I’d agree DAII’s writing doesnt hold a candle to what Obsidian is capable of, but I thought it was good with some real moments of greatness. This was really not an issue of DAII to me.
@Thepal – I also enjoyed DAII more than DA1. I do think DA1 was the more polished game… but it was also incredibly generic to hell both in term of looks and story, and really while DA2 had some huge issue (no need to mention how much every areas are repeated, though it was still better than ME1 in that respect) it doesn’t have any moments that come closes to the horror of the Fade and the Deep Roads. I’d hope DAIII would manage to bring the better aspects of both games.