Skyrim. Looks. Awesome! (Updated!)
I won’t keep you in suspense. Feast your eyes, Dragons and Dragonettes:
Skyrimtastic.
One can only assume, given Bethesda’s previous works in their The Elder Scrolls series, that Skyrim will ship with a development toolkit. At least, one hopes it will, because it’s a fantastically beautiful engine capable of creating large, highly detailed worlds.
And what other notable fantasy series that has a large fanbase with an interest in both expanding its story and remaking its older titles might benefit from something like that?
Update: Screenshots!
[singlepic id=1056 w=500 h=281 float=center]
Fighting a dragon
[singlepic id=1057 w=500 h=281 float=center]
Encounter in a crypt
[singlepic id=1058 w=500 h=281 float=center]
Guardian stones
[singlepic id=1059 w=500 h=281 float=center]
Riding a horse
[singlepic id=1060 w=500 h=281 float=center]
Giant mammoths
[singlepic id=1061 w=500 h=281 float=center]
Riften
Be it hereby resolved that this game looketh incredible!
Awesome! I look forward to the game!
“That horse doesn’t have any armor right now!” Hahahaha!
Yes I’ve definitely read that the game will be very mod-friendly (apparently the Construction Kit and file formats will all function pretty much the same as they did in Oblivion, so a lot of modders will be able to get straight into it). I also read that Bethesda are trying to find a way for mods to be made available to console players as well.
Sad thing is that I won’t have a chance of getting this to run on my machine and it’s going be be a long time before I can really justify upgrading.
If Oblivion and Fallout 3 ran on your computer, so will this. Remember, they’ve had to make it run on the PS3 and Xbox 360. You mightn’t be able to have the graphics settings all the way up, but it should run.
This will be the first Elder Scrolls game in a while where I won’t be thinking “what Ultima should I remake this time?.” The Serpent Isle remake will be my last. I plan on making a mod or two for Skyrim, but no more Ultima remakes. That feels kinda good. Now I just need to make sure I get this remake done before Skyrim ships.
I’ve always loved the Elder Scrolls series, but I became ecstatic about them from Morrowind on. With Morrowind came a lot of ideas that I hadn’t seen in RPGs since Ultima 7. The way it handles NPCs, giving them schedules, and performing regular activities such as eating, going for walks and sleeping always felt VERY Ultima inspired to me as it created the feel of a truly living world. I’m just hoping that the “uncluttering” of the skill/stat systems in Skyrim don’t dumb it down too much.
Aye… Ultima has always been a major influence for Bethesda – you just need to look how they handled character creation in Bethesda, but this influence didn’t become palpable until Oblivion (and I guess Morrowind to a lesser degree).
While most RPG developpers have dropped any for of world simulation from the games, they’re the only who are pushing it further and further with each title.
The Radiant AI which often get a lot of laugh from people (why ? How is having immobile NPCs like Bioware’s game is better ?) this is typircally the sort of thing that Origin would have been for Ultima IMO – trying to the push the NPC interaction/schedule further and further through actualy AI rather than simple scripting
“That horse doesn’t have any armor right now!–[laughter]”
I’ve never played any of the Elder Scrolls series, and this seemed like a very popular inside joke–someone please explain why the audience cracked up at this?
One of the first paying DLC for Oblivion was an armor for your horse, for which they got a lot of criticism.
Bethesda has since aknowledge that selling a horse armor was dumb and it’s become some sort of running gag (but also in other places a symbol of crappy DLCs)
-Sergorn
I’ve been spending a lot of ‘research’ time playing Oblivion lately. I agree; it gives me the kind of satisfaction that I got from U7 etc. In Skyrim, I realize that I haven’t anticipated a game in a long time (U9 was my last).
Yeah, I mean before Oblivion I would never have imagined I would ever be eagerly waiting for an Elder Scroll game. Skyrim looks very neat.
Yay! Pro-Elder Scrolls discussion at an Ultima site. I’ve waited so long… *eyes tear up* 😛
This isn’t your typical Ultima site! 😉
True.
And the good thing is, discussion like this seems to increase my motivation to make the most out of the Oblivion engine for my SI remake. *ponders what he can do in Moonshade that is cool with the AI*
I am truly stunned… wow
I know it sounds like spamming (and, in fact, it is), but it never gets old:
http://www.industrygamers.com/galleries/playing-favorites-bethesdas-todd-howard/1/
http://www.industrygamers.com/galleries/playing-favorites-bethesdas-todd-howard/12/
1. Ultima 7 (PC)
Depending on the year, I flip this choice around between 3 games: Ultima 4, Ultima 6, or Ultima 7. No other gaming series has, over such a long period of time, given me such joy. I get lost in the world of an Ultima; it’s a real place to me. The people were real, their problems real, and travelling a new world, ripe with its own history, all real to me. Nothing else has inspired what I do as much as Richard Garriott’s creation. If gaming is the ultimate escape, then Ultima is its best game.
In due time:
Todd Howard is one of the directors from Bethesda Game Studios. He is the guy who is being interviewed in the Skyrim video.
Now you can see more aspects of Ultima in TES5:
– you can fight a dragon (doh!)
– you can work and see NPCs work (rather than just sleep, wander around and stop behind a counter)
– you can cook your food
– you can forge your weapon (I suppose)
Not that we, Ultima fans, only live from the past. I dare to say TES has surpassed the open world of Ultima long ago. Nowadays, my reference of a good RPG is Oblivion.
To sum things up… the universe of RPG will, most possibly, become small before Skyrim.
Ultima, Elder Scrolls and Diablo have been a staple in my RPG diet for a long time. Happy days ahead with Skyrim, D3 and new Ultima rumors, my cup overfloweth 😛
The only issue I have with Bethesda is that they often promise too much, their hype goes into overdrive.
I just hope that they’ve learned from Oblivion and Fallout 3 in a good way, and can deliver on their promises a bit more this time around.
The reason I criticise Radiant AI was that their original idea for it was very impressive, but got scaled back rather a lot for the final release. Skyrim looks better in this regard.
I’ll be buying it for sure, even if it has problems the modders will fix them. I’ve played almost all the Elder scrolls games (only played the demo for Redguard), and have enjoyed them all.
I’ll grant that there some overhyping, but that’s part of business.
My view is that even though Radiant AI was scaled back from the original concept, it’s still lightyears ahead anything the competition (minus Gothic 1/2 and Risen) offers – so it would feels wrong to complain.
If Oblivion’s Radiant AI is the best we can do as an industry, we’re spending money in the wrong places.
Oblivion wasn’t that much better than Ultima VII for example (in terms of NPC behaviour), and 1992 to 2006 is a rather long time. I don’t blame Bethesda particularly for this, they’re one of the few that are actually trying, and the above video does suggest they’ve made it a lot better for Skyrim.
Haven’t played Risen, so I can’t comment on that. There’s a sequel in the works though, so I might check that out.
Oblivion’s AI was so much better than Ultima VII’s that your statement actually made me laugh. I don’t think people realise just how amazing Radiant AI is. Get a programmer friend to look at Ultima VII’s schedules. Then get him/her to look at what it Oblivion/Fallout 3 can do in the CS, mention the fact that the 1000s of NPCs in the world all perform those schedules all the time (even if you’re on the other side of the map), then tell him about your statement. Then wait for the laughter.
It’s true that Bethesda toned it down before release. That is because it was creating too much unpredictable behaviour when NPCs were given needs (kinda like The Sims) and then letting them run free. People would have complained a lot more if the person they needed to talk to for a quest urinated in his pants then set his house on fire while cooking, and then burnt to death. In The Sims, it is kinda humorous. In Oblivion it would have been game-breaking.
It’s all still in there though. Stories like having a guard steal some food because he was hungry then having the other guards kill him for being a thief can still happen with a couple of minor setting changes. It just wouldn’t have made sense in the game, so the settings for those guards were changed to make sense. I can’t really think of anything they said was in there that isn’t still in the engine. All that happened is they messed with the settings a little to make it work the way it should.
The thing to understand about the Radiant AI is that is incredibly impressive because this is, basically, an AI.
While at first glance Ultima VII may seems more complete (though we also need to consider how much more complex it gets with 3D just look at U9), the thing that while there is a little bit of AI this is mostly done through scripting. Likewise with Gothic and Risen.
But the AI approach used by Betheda is basically the next logical step… The downside is that its harder to implement properly but thr upside is that down the road it should make the worlds more alive than ever.
Skyrim appears to be taking things even farther which is good (not to mention the whole Radiant Adventure aspect which seem very interesting) and Im confident they will keep improving upon it in their next games.
I’m sure some people will basically laugh at all this and keep.reminding us how Skyrim is crap and consolish and whatever yeah well… They can go back to playing the static and lifeless Bioware formula for all I care 😛
Perhaps if I could turn the speed up in one of these games to 3-5 times normal speed I wouldn’t mind it so much.
I have to agree, Ultima 7 had some pretty complex scripting for it’s time. But it’s no where near the complexity of Oblivion.
But does AI make a game good? I can’t get into TES, I’d say it’s one part bad third person controls, 1 part too big of a world environment, and 1 part every town/house looks exactly the same and I thing start getting confusing.
I remember trying to play Oblivion. I’d come home from work, get on my pc for 2-3 hours, and spend an hour just finding the house I’m supposed to go in and wait for it to load back and forth. What a drag! I’m not a kid anymore, I don’t have hours where I can sit and play a game and take mental notes to where every little thing is.
It would be fair to say that AI forms a part of what makes a game good.
I don’t, however, think it’s fair to say that any one feature makes or breaks a game.
Micro, I have to wonder if you actually played the same game that the rest of us did?
Oblivion was by no means a perfect game and there are plenty of valid criticisms one can make.. but to say that all the towns and buildings look the same really makes me wonder how many of them you actually went to…
And the map markers make it very obvious where you’re meant to go and show all the places you’ve been and the journal means you actually don’t have to keep track of anything at all. If you don’t like having to take notes of everything, how on earth did you manage to play Ultima?
Though I do agree about the third-person thing. It just isn’t supposed to be played in third-person and I honestly don’t know why they even gave the option. The only use is letting you see what your character looks like. Looks like they’ve made a big effort to fix this in Skyrim though.
You also mention speed. I was frustrated with how slow movement was too at first, but I soon realised that this is because movement speed is tied to your character stats. If you want to be able to move around faster, you have to work for it. Besides, the game never actually forces you to walk long distances – you can fast travel if that’s more your style (though I think you miss a lot of the fun of exploring if you do this).
Anyways, from what I’ve seen from Skyrim so far, it looks like they’re well aware of the problems Oblivion had and are trying to improve in many ways.
Some notes… I don’t remmember from where I read this, but suppose it is true:
– They still couldn’t implement the original AI from Oblivion for Skyrim. Like Thepal said, the AI was so realistic that the population would start wars and the game would be unplayable plotwise.
– Todd Howard wanted to make the game as alive as in Ultima VII… he still couldn’t fully convince his superiors about this for Skyrim (there are many neat new features though). Note that the dialogue from Oblivion is not much different from Ultima VII. The former provides: “City” and “Rumors”; the latter, “Name” and “Job”. However, Ultima VII provides more in depth conversation… you actually feel people’s problems are real.
I feel that Oblivion goes in the direction of surpassing what single player Ultima was at its best. I’ll start with the bottom line, saying that I really enjoy it — and like any other Ultima fan I’m hypercritical about ALL RPGs.
They’ve dedicated their resources to producing an excellent single-player RPG experience. It’s paying off. They’ve come a long way from Arena — which in my books could never compare with an Ultima (despite being released at around the same time).
Now this is a post about a non-ultima RPG on an Ultima Forum, so now I must turn grumpy: Pet Peeve — hiring pretty people to pretend to be interested in games. Also, what’s going on with the changing outfit on the lady? Composite video?
@Thepal:
Perhaps I was unclear or overly hyperbolic, but I was comparing U7 and Oblivion in terms of what you actually see in the game. You put it best when you say:
“I don’t think people realise just how amazing Radiant AI is.”
And I certainly don’t. Radiant AI may be capable of a lot of things, but the original unmodded game was limited for the reasons that you and others stated.
I was hoping that they’d be able to fix it for Skyrim, but I’m a bit disheartened by what Kobra Kai has said.
Just looking at the video it’s pretty obvious there Radiant AI and generally things NPC can do is more advanced than it was in Oblivion.
So I wouldn’t worry too much about it.
Pretty sure the “pretty” people are actually gamers. Sorry to break it to you.
“Perhaps I was unclear or overly hyperbolic, but I was comparing U7 and Oblivion in terms of what you actually see in the game.”
Maybe you should play Ultima VII again to see exactly what was going on in that, since you obviously think there was more than there was. People could walk from one location to another (Oblivion does that, though it is much more complex to do it in Oblivion’s world). People could lie down in bed (Oblivion does that). People could wander around randomly saying things (Oblivion does that). People could sit down and have a meal (Oblivion does that). That was all that 90% of the NPCs did. Then there were a few “jobs” that could be performed in U7.
Warriors could train on dummies, archery targets (Oblivion does that).
What Oblivion doesn’t have (I think): Tailors tailored (sitting at looms, etc). Barmaids barmaided (serving people at their tables). People could be made to dance. Blacksmiths could blacksmith.
I can think of a *lot* more unique scheduling in Oblivion than that. Plus the depth behind the schedules is much larger. And you’re right, you don’t see a lot of that ingame. It doesn’t mean it isn’t there (or it isn’t improving the experience). Maybe you should wander around Oblivion a little more, and think about how much is behind what some NPCs are doing. Not simply “It is 3pm. I think I’ll go have a drink”, but “I need to beat this person in this Thieves’ test. I need to go to this house, pick the lock on this door, search the house, pick the lock on the chest, and steal this object”. Though, as this is AI, they aren’t always just given the instructions. They work out how to get past obstacles when they find them.
I’m very pretty if I do say so myself, and I do. I’m not vein about it I’m just honest. And I take interest in video games. Go to a gaming convention and look at some of the hot chicks there. Not just the ones that are hired. The ones that walk around.
http://www.desda.science.ru.nl/starcraft/starcraft.html
TOSS GIRL IS MAD HOT! She’s one of the best Starcraft 1 players EVER! I’m not sure if she’s one a championship, but she has gone up against boxer in the final elimination rounds before. She is amazing at SC and just amazing to look at.
Duke, perhaps we didn’t play the game the same way. I don’t believe I played this game more than 10-15 hours. At the time I was working 11-12 hours a day, 5 days a week. On top of going into my office on the weekends for 8 hours on Saturday and 1-3 hours on Sunday. I never got all the mechanics of the game down, and quite frankly, I didn’t have the time to get the mechanics of the game down.
As I mentioned in my previous post. I don’t have the time to get into a game that is massive. I also don’t have the willpower to make -mental- notes. I’ve never taken notes for a game other than myst and riven. I’ve played all the ultima’s, I’ve gotten really close to the end of serpent’s isle, halfway through 9, and I’ve beaten ultima 1,2,6,7. The only notes I’ve taken were deciphering runic on gravestones.
It’s not that I want my character to run faster. As I’ve mentioned in a previous thread, when I played ultima 7, it was at the fastest speed possible. People would FLY through their schedules, one 24 hour brittannic day was about 5-7min real life. I believe Baldur’s gate and Icewind Dale had the option of increasing the game speed. I want to game to run super unrealistically quick. I don’t want it to take me minutes to run through a town. And I don’t want to earn the right to run quicker.
I’m the type of guy that would buy an rpg and play it on an emulator just so I could increase the speed.
I also like game worlds to be somewhat small. A lot of people consider Gothic 2 to be as good, if not, a little worse than Gothic 1. I LOVED Gothic 1. Probably one of my tippity top games I’ve ever played in my life. But I find Gothic 2 unplayable simply because the world is too large. Don’t get me started on G3… YIKES!
How did you pass any of the later Ultimas if you don’t have the spare time to invest more than a few hours in a game?
I mean, even at my best, I couldn’t pass Ultima 6 in less than 10 hours. Or at least, I don’t think I could.
Ultima 6 can be won in 20 minutes if you feel like it.
I’m pretty sure I took months the first time though. Back then games were meant to take a while. Now walkthroughs are too available (or in my case, I understand games too well that they are just too easy now)
Thepal: I don’t need a walkthrough for Ultima 6; I have that game memorized.
But 20 minutes? I could maybe believe an hour. I mean, the shrines won’t take long, and you can technically skip the silver tablet, but there’s the balloon plans to find, plus getting on that sacred quest…
An hour. At least an hour.
I was in middle school/high school when I played the later Ultimas.
Nope. 20 minutes or less.
The funny thing is, since Ultima 6 was my first Ultima game and the manual was huge and unlike anything I had seen before, I never knew I had to “talk” to the shrines. I was kinda annoyed that I was level 3 for the entire game. So, yeah… shrines aren’t necessary, nor is levelling up. I ended up fighting low/mid level stuff (combat was fun) and finding ways around fighting high level stuff. Invisibility rings in Destard were a must.
I skipped a huge portion of the main quest the first time too… Don’t quite remember how… *ponders* Pretty sure you can just go straight to the gargoyles via the orb, grab one lens. Get the other lens crafted for you. Kill some gargoyles and grab the orbs. Get the cube from the cyclopses. Fly over the mountains in the balloon (after making it of course) then finish the game. I don’t think I had the “sacred quest”. I just flew over the mountains. But I didn’t just finish it like that the first time (well, I did, but with a lot of exploring and such in between as well). I talked to everyone, did pretty much everything possible in the game… except most of the main quest which I somehow skipped.
So yeah… 20 minutes. 😛
Okay, but remember that making the balloon involves a) passing Sutek’s castle and dungeon, b) finding all the materials and merchants, and c) putting the thing together. Getting the moonstones means finding all the runes (and you have to have the mantras memorized). Getting the lens made requires gems, which means you need enough cash to buy the required number; I suppose you can do this by busting into the mint, but you need the Unlock Magic spell (which means finding Nicodemus) to do that.
Figure that — plus all you mention — takes an hour.
Is there a route over the mountains into the Codex? I’ve never found that…sounds like I have some exploring to do!
Well, I have just completed the main quest in U6O recently. For like the third time. If you were unaware, I’m very active in the U6O community. I’m not sure the EXACT gameflags the original u6 had, but I’m sure of a few of them. And since Galleon and Kaldosh were u6 purists(they wouldn’t even add a lamp to the streets of Britain) the item locations and things you need to complete the game are exactly exactly the same. Again, I could never complete the original due to gamecrashes and glitches.
Not sure how you got to level 3 without meditating… but ok. I actually had the same problem when I played the original.
To complete the main quest you need the silver tablet. One piece in lycaeum, one piece on treasure island. If theft is not a problem, I’m pretty sure you can use a stolen shovel on treasure island without talking to homer and budo and deal with the map pieces. You need the tablet to talk to the gargs, you need to talk to cpt john to get the translated scroll to learn the language. And as WTF said, you need to go through suteks happy time fun dungeon, a cauldron, rope, basket, and silk bag for the balloon. The silk bag isn’t the easiest thing to make. You go from paws, to new magincia, back to paws. And voila, you have the balloon.
Talk to Beh Lem so you can talk to the gargs without being instakilled. Talk to drax to get submission amulet(might not need to in the original). Talk to Ephemerides and garg lens guy to get the lens. Ephemerides needs a glass sword to produce the lens that you can find in moonglow crypts.
Talk to the shrine of singularity. Unless the balloon could go over the whites of the mountains or in between the statues, you can’t get the to codex shrine. You need a fan to steer the balloon, level 6-7 spell for wind change, or get lucky and have the wind flow your way.
You also need all runes to get the moonstones for the cube to complete the game. But the shrine of spirituality is in the void which you can only get to with a half moon. A half moon with the black on the left the white on the right. So that in and of itself can take some time.
Don’t forget you need a log from yew to get the board to make the panpipes.
And you need unlock magic for getting the cube in stonegate. So you need at least level 2… which isn’t really a huge deal.
I wouldn’t even guess how long this could take someone. But it’s definitely more than 20 minutes. And depending on how long a Brittanic day in the original. It may even take more than an hour.
It definitely takes longer in U6O then the original since there are more gameflags that should’ve been placed in the original. And you get the orb of the moons at the end of the game, not the beginning.
I’d be quite interested seeing a speed run of Ultima 6.
Micro: One little detail: in Ultima 6, you start at Level 3.
You can just go around the statues.
And I reckon I could do 20 minutes… I can’t remember where I got gems from… I remember there was a hoard of them somewhere (not the mint… and by hoard I mean like 6). Hmm… but now I think about it… perhaps it’d take 30 minutes :p I mean… you move pretty quickly in U6. And money isn’t a problem (just go to Trinsic and turn the cannons on the guards, collect their plate armour and then sell it). The orb gets you almost everywhere, and a boat is a quick buy to get you to Sutek’s. I believe you needed a couple of spells there though (unlock magic and dispel field I think… or was it telekinesis?)
Maybe I should try a speed run and see just how fast it can be done.
Thepal: If you do a speed run, use DOSBox’s video recording feature and put the thing on YouTube. I’d love to see that!
You definitely need unlock magic to get into the crypts, dispel field to get the broken garg lens, and for Sutek you need telekinesis to lower the draw bridge.
I think the fight sequences(even running around them will eat up 30 sec-1 min) if I’m not mistaken, didn’t the birds also slow the game down as though it were a fight sequence. But definitely the moongate to spirituality will trip you up.
I’ll bet you 20 bucks you can’t beat it in 20 min! That’s a dollar a minute if you win! Good luck avatar.
That’s right! You start with 90 hp, now that’s somewhat of a strange design choice to start you off at level 3. The testers probably told him it was too hard starting off at level 1.
Looking forward to this one. Been a fan since Morrowind (my favourite of the series, too). Hope it plays as good as it looks!