Why Do We Separate Western and Japanese RPGs?
GameBanshee links to an article by Craig Stern at IndieRPGs, in which he doesn’t so much pose the question as explain the notable distinction between Western RPGs (WRPGs) and Japanese RPGs (JRPGs) as stylistic forms, and then argues that the distinction is a good thing.
The standard jRPG approach to character and item progression is exponential. The player begins with tens of hit points and attack damage, and rockets upwards from there, eventually ending the game with thousands of hit points and dealing several thousand damage per attack.
Items in jRPGs follow a similar curve, leading to something of a material consumption treadmill. Progression through the game involves constantly replacing old items and equipment with newer, more expensive models. That stuff you bought in the last town worked really well against wolves, but now you’re fighting giant toads, and they barely scratch them. So you buy the really expensive new models. And those work exceptionally well — until you get to the next area, which has enemies those weapons can barely scratch, and a town that sells a yet more expensive version of that same equipment. And so on. (I was pleasantly surprised to see the indie jRPG Deadly Sin 2 subverting this with its healing items, which actually remain useful throughout the whole game.)
Now, wRPGs love their leveling and loot collection too, but wRPGs tend to progress linearly in these areas. Characters begin the game doing about 5 damage per hit, and end the game doing less than 30 (up to 99 for exceptionally powerful and expensive spells). Health progresses in a similar fashion, as do magic points. This sort of linear progression is largely a consequence of wRPG systems arising more directly out of the systems of their pen-and-paper ancestors, which relied on dice and math that could easily be calculated by people sitting around a table and swilling beer. Needless to say, you aren’t going to roll 10,000-sided dice for damage in a game of Dungeons and Dragons.
Ultima fans have a bit of a horse in this race, since it’s arguably the case that JRPGs emerged as a distinct sytlistic form through an evolutionary process that can be traced back to Ultima 3. So whereas WRPGs of yesterera did indeed have their roots firmly planted in pen-and-paper RPGs, one could argue that JRPGs have their roots in early digital simulacra of those same systems; they are a layer removed therefrom.
Is the separation, the categorization, useful? It’s pretty easy to tell a JRPG from a WRPG with even a cursory glance; there is very obviously a sharp contrast between the aesthetics of each RPG type. A Western RPG and a Japanese RPG will differ, often quite sharply, in such categories as graphics, combat, general gameplay, and music, if not in many other ways as well. And to be fair, each style has its fans, and the fanbases of each style do not necessarily overlap. That’s not to say that there is no overlap, but it is to say that there is not 100% overlap.
So I’d say yes, the distinction is helpful.
I would definitely have to agree that there is a clear distinction between the two. And yes they definitely share a common root with Ultima. But at some point the two diverged on separate paths. The JRPG followed the direction of anime and manga with over the top battles and action (hence the ridiculous large weapons, stats, and damages). While the WRPG followed a more grittier line that tries to skirt the players suspension of disbelief by making things look, feel, and play a little more realistically.
Personally I love JRPGs for their graphic styles because they still to this day beckon back to the days of Ultima. But I also like the darker grittier more believable WRPG story lines. I definitely believe there’s roof for the creative developer and design team to converge these two styles back together to create something new. It could work if done right.
You might also make a note of Extra Credits over at Penny Arcade. They’re in part 2 of a 3 part series discussing the same thing.
I think what’s interesting when you compare WRPG and JRPG too, is how the later basically barely evolved since the Ultima-ish origins with Dragon Quest.
WRPG changed a lot over the decades, notably giving a greater and greater focus on the interactive narrative aspect and choice&consequence.
JRPG though, they evolved in their executions : graphics got better, narrative told more complex and better stories and so on… but it’s interesting to notice how basically the game mechanics haven’t changed a lot in over two decades.
There are exceptions of course, but I mean even today tons of JRPGs will just follow the same old overland map approach, with a somewhat linear plot, turn based or semi turn based combat, and NPCs that basically consists of one liners.
I mean if you play Dragon Quest IX, you can still see Ultima III in it (though it should be point DQ is the most conservative JRPG series there is). If you play Mass Effect… not so much 😛
One thinkg I liked about JRPGs (and many Japanese games in general) is that unlike many modern wester game, they aren’t bogged down in “realism”. What I mean is that it feels to me western games are killing a lot of good stuff in game solely for the purpose of making them feel “more realistic”. Eck you have a good exemple with FPS: now you’re limited in 99% of them to TWO weapons because developpers felt it more realistic. But who f*cking care? It might not have been realistic to carry a ton of weapons in Doom, but it was FUN. I feel however there is still some of that philosophy in Japanese game, in that they’ll often think first and foremost about the core gameplay ideas and they’ll put it in the games even if that doesn’t make any sense narratively because well, it’s a game you know ?
(That and Japanese love wacky designs and crazy stories, which is way more inspiring to me to all the “gritty” and monochrome stuff we’re getting in western games this gen).
According to the guys at Extra Credits, JRPGs actually existed in a limited form even before Ultima/Wizardry inspired Dragon Quest.
I thought the Dragon Quest model was… spend 2 hours grinding slimes, gain 1 level, continue grinding slimes for 4 hours… gain 1 level, progress to next zone.
Man that was a horrible game.
I’d have a hard time classifying wRPGs and jRPGs into two distinct groups as they barrow from each other pretty frequently. If one is to be called black and the other white, there’s an awful lot of grays. There are plenty of “Western” RPGs that follow the jRPG model pretty closely and vice versa. They both have something to bring to the table. I personally have little patience for the jRPG model anymore, but I’ve certainly enjoyed them in the past.
I do agree with Sergorn however. The gritty realism plaguing the western game market is getting a bit much. That’s a big part of what I enjoyed about Reckoning. It’s bright, cartoonish style was a serious relief.
I love Reckoning’s colors, its palette. So vibrant, in an Ultima 6y kind of way.
Glad to see you’re still enjoying Amalur.
The real question is genre definition. Why are FPS compared with non FPS in the example image? Why can a Western RPG be an FPS with stats and story while a Japanese RPG is relegated to tradition mechanics and graphic styles?
I’d argue there have been many popular JRPGs which resembled Western RPGs using equal methods of comparison such as Gran Turismo V (first person racing with RPG elements), Biohazard (obvious), Armored Core, Tenchu, Demon’s Souls, etc. I suppose the main distinction should be Japanese games/clones versus non-Japanese games/clones if there had to be a definition.
When the Japanese and the Americans get on the same page with games, it will be a sad day.
Yup!
I’m taking a break from it to finish at least one ME3 playthrough, but I’ll be right back to Reckoning once that’s done. And I’ll try post the first part of a game review in the near future, detailing my exploits in the first region of the world that you get to play in.
The game I’m souring on is The Old Republic…it has become something I play almost casually, and then infrequently. I’m not sure why…maybe I’m just not an MMO guy, or maybe I just hate kludgy combat systems. Not really sure. Still enjoying the story elements, but after an hour or so of play, I feel like logging out and playing something else.
*cough* Don’t you have something else you’re supposed to be doing? *cough*
Yeah, but it’s taking forever to download the files. And the thing I was working on should be paused anyway, until I set up that subdomain we discussed.
I had a friend playing The Old Republic, but she didn’t last long. I considered it for a bit, but I think I’ve lost my taste for MMOs. I played WoW for what seems like ages, and Champions Online for a slightly shorter eternity, and while I met some good people (a couple of whom I still stay in touch with) the reality is I was paying a huge amount of money annually to interact with a lot of people I’d really not have anything to do with. Anonymity kinda makes people act like dicks. Now I’d rather buy multiplayer games that I can play with friends than pay someone monthly for the privilege of irritating me. RPGs have been light in that area lately, unfortunately. Good one’s anyway.
Yeah, I was going to immediately note Extra Credits for their discussion of the topic.
Now why is it when I play a jrpg I buy as many potions as I can in each town and drink them like candy. And in wrpg I hold onto potions like the realm has run out of alchemy sets. So in the end I’m stuck with a billion useless potions for one not so hard boss fight…
That’s kinda why I like New Vegas. In hardcore mode it eliminates the possibility of a conservative play style and forces you to explore the important stuff first.
“Both are excellent genres”
Bollocks. JRPGs have aged, repetitive, linear and generic gameplay; annoying characters with awful designs, poor dialogue, and cringeworthy art styles. And this comes from a guy who grew up playing JRPGs and console games, and didn’t discover Western RPGs until many years later – after which he stopped playing JRPGs altogether, as he realized they were miles behind CRPGs.
Oh, and to complement my previous comment, keep this in mind: Xenoblade Chronicles is the highest rated JRGP this generation, with most reviewers agreeing that it’s the best JRPG released in modern consoles. And if you played the game, you’ll realize that it took lots of influences from Western RPGs: it has a huge world and features free-roaming. Even its producer admitted that it was influenced by them (source: http://www.joystiq.com/2012/04/06/xenoblade-chronicles-director-naturally-influenced-by-western-de/ ).
So what does the fact that what is considered the best JRPG of the generation was heavily influenced by Western RPGs tell you about the argument of JRPGs vs CRPGs?